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Old Oct 27th 2004, 2:07 pm   #31
Banty
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Default Re: ONLY TWO WEEKS VACATION PER YEAR IN THE US???

In article <[email protected]>, Ted Ng" <[email protected][nospam].com>
says...
    >"Jonathan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]
    >> When an American friend told me people in the US only have two weeks
    >> of paid leave PER YEAR I could scarcely believe it. He said yeah but
    >> we get paid public holidays.
    >> In the UK we get 4 to 5 weeks paid leave plus public holidays . Other
    >> countries like France get 5 to 6 weeks plus public holidays. Plus
    >> they only work 35 hours per week yet they are one of the most
    >> productive countries in the world.
    >Even if what you are saying is true, all signs point to the ending of the
    >35-hour work week.
    >> If this is true about the US, how can the average American live under
    >> such a system and not lose their mind???
    >It sucks, but I see in the news that business conditions are now forcing
    >Europe to cut back on the extensive social welfare system. Specifically,
    >unemployment benefits are being significantly reduced, employees must work
    >longer hours and additional years before retiring. Frankly, western Europe
    >has no choice. As long as they want free trade, they will have to compete
    >with the much lower wages in eastern Europe and the far east. The wrenching
    >changes the US has gone through over the past decade, western Europe will
    >also have to experience. It's Business 101. That, or we re-erect trade
    >barriers against countries that don't follow similar labor practices. Is it
    >fair for American and European workers to compete against workers in other
    >countries who make 1/10 the salary and have no benefits or workplace safety
    >regulations? Some economists say this is good, others say it isn't. I don't
    >know who to believe. All I know is whenever I go into the store, I struggle
    >to find anything that isn't manufactured in China, stuff that we used to
    >make. It makes me sad.

In the meantime, expectations in other parts of the world will increase as far
as wages, vacation, living conditions and social support. That will be a
long-term process, though.

Banty
 
Old Oct 27th 2004, 2:39 pm   #32
Pretty Woman
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Default Re: ONLY TWO WEEKS VACATION PER YEAR IN THE US???

Jonathan wrote:
    > When an American friend told me people in the US only have two weeks
    > of paid leave PER YEAR I could scarcely believe it. He said yeah but
    > we get paid public holidays.
    >
    > In the UK we get 4 to 5 weeks paid leave plus public holidays . Other
    > countries like France get 5 to 6 weeks plus public holidays. Plus
    > they only work 35 hours per week yet they are one of the most
    > productive countries in the world.
    >
    > If this is true about the US, how can the average American live under
    > such a system and not lose their mind???
    >
    > Life can't all be about work. It seems such a system would breed
    > highly neurotic and hysterical people. I wouldn't want to live like
    > that no matter how much they paid me.

I get 5 plus 4 personal choice days :-)
 
Old Oct 27th 2004, 2:43 pm   #33
fatman985
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Default Re: ONLY TWO WEEKS VACATION PER YEAR IN THE US???

Jonathan <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > When an American friend told me people in the US only have two weeks
    > of paid leave PER YEAR I could scarcely believe it. He said yeah but
    > we get paid public holidays.
    >
    > In the UK we get 4 to 5 weeks paid leave plus public holidays . Other
    > countries like France get 5 to 6 weeks plus public holidays. Plus
    > they only work 35 hours per week yet they are one of the most
    > productive countries in the world.
    >
    > If this is true about the US, how can the average American live under
    > such a system and not lose their mind???
    >
    > Life can't all be about work. It seems such a system would breed
    > highly neurotic and hysterical people. I wouldn't want to live like
    > that no matter how much they paid me.

Look at American foreign policy. If that's not neurotic I don't know
what is. The neurosis percolates to all levels, which is why you'll
find people defending the status quo but unable to dispute the facts.
Take the fact that the average work year has increased in the U.S.
while its decreased elsewhere. What's the reward to the average
American worker? Outsourcing, reduction or loss of benefits, and more
stress.
 
Old Oct 27th 2004, 2:46 pm   #34
S Viemeister
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Default Re: ONLY TWO WEEKS VACATION PER YEAR IN THE US???

Pretty Woman wrote:
    >
    > I get 5 plus 4 personal choice days :-)
Is that five days or five weeks?
 
Old Oct 27th 2004, 3:17 pm   #35
Jane Sitton
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Default Re: ONLY TWO WEEKS VACATION PER YEAR IN THE US???

Jonathan wrote:
    > When an American friend told me people in the US only have two weeks
    > of paid leave PER YEAR I could scarcely believe it. He said yeah but
    > we get paid public holidays.
    >
    > In the UK we get 4 to 5 weeks paid leave plus public holidays . Other
    > countries like France get 5 to 6 weeks plus public holidays. Plus
    > they only work 35 hours per week yet they are one of the most
    > productive countries in the world.
    >
    > If this is true about the US, how can the average American live under
    > such a system and not lose their mind???
    >
    > Life can't all be about work. It seems such a system would breed
    > highly neurotic and hysterical people. I wouldn't want to live like
    > that no matter how much they paid me.

How much vacation one gets varies widely, and depends upon what the
company wants to offer. The company I just left gives two weeks
vacation and 40 personal hours per year after you've been with them a
year. When you reach five years, you get another week vacation and
another 10 hours personal time. At ten years, you pick up another week
and 10 hours. The max is six weeks vacation and 80 hours personal time
(which can be used an hour at a time, and does not accumulate more than
80 hours per year).

The new job I'm starting Monday has more paid holidays off (Veterans'
Day, Martin Luther King's birthday, & etc.), and has a week off for
winter break and a week off for spring break. Vacation accrues at the
rate of 8 hours per month worked, and personal time is the same. The
best part is that health insurance is free (for me, I still have to pay
for spouse & children).

There are no set laws that I know of regarding how much vacation a
company offers. Nowadays, many companies get around offering vacation
altogether by hiring only part-time employees.

--Jane
 
Old Oct 27th 2004, 3:35 pm   #36
The Reids
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Default Re: ONLY TWO WEEKS VACATION PER YEAR IN THE US???

Following up to Deep Frayed Morgues

    >I detest work. It bores and stresses me, and I am constantly looking
    >at ways to do less of it for more money. This is an attitude that was
    >viewed as blasphemy last time (early 2001) I was in the US

the question here is why do so many "rightwing" Americans seem to
dispise trade unions etc and just seem to believe this work-work
culture is to their advantage?
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email [email protected] this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- [email protected] all, it's a spamtrap
 
Old Oct 27th 2004, 3:39 pm   #37
Richard
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Default Re: ONLY TWO WEEKS VACATION PER YEAR IN THE US???

"Deep Frayed Morgues" <[email protected]!l.nu> wrote in
message news:[email protected]

    > I detest work. It bores and stresses me, and I am constantly
    > looking at ways to do less of it for more money.

Perhaps rather than thinking about less-for-more, you should think about
different. Find a line of work that you enjoy and you won't feel compelled
to find ways to work fewer hours. Not that I'm advocating the work schedule
you describe further down in your message, far from it, between 35 and 40
hours a week is about as much as anyone should have to work IMHO but the
hours you do work will pass by a lot less painfully if you enjoy whatever it
is you spend them doing.

    > This is an attitude that was viewed as blasphemy last time (early
    > 2001) I was in the US. In the company I was working at, it was
    > expected that everyone arrived an hour before they started getting
    > paid, and stopped two hours after they stopped getting paid. A
    > large number of them worked at least one day on the weekend too.

Surely there are laws against forcing people to do this?

Richard
 
Old Oct 27th 2004, 3:49 pm   #38
Informer
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Default Re: ONLY TWO WEEKS VACATION PER YEAR IN THE US???

"Yaofeng" <[email protected]> wrote


    > >
    > > I work for a very large UK company. I am on a 36 hour week, I work one
5
    > > day week followed by one 4 day week (Monday to Friday) this equates to
26
    > > scheduled days off a year. On top of that I get 6 weeks annual leave.
Add
    > > the 26 scheduled days off makes a total of 11 weeks 1 day plus the
public
    > > holidays.
    > That's why everything is so expensive in the UK. Isn't it? Gasoline
    > prices 3 to 4 times those of the US, meals 1.5 to 2 times, groceries,
    > etc... Because you produce to little...

May be so but at least I am happy. Don't have to worry about being shot
either.
 
Old Oct 27th 2004, 3:53 pm   #39
AcydSkull
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Default Re: ONLY TWO WEEKS VACATION PER YEAR IN THE US???

Jonathan <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

    > When an American friend told me people in the US only have two weeks
    > of paid leave PER YEAR I could scarcely believe it. He said yeah but
    > we get paid public holidays.
    >
    > In the UK we get 4 to 5 weeks paid leave plus public holidays . Other
    > countries like France get 5 to 6 weeks plus public holidays. Plus
    > they only work 35 hours per week yet they are one of the most
    > productive countries in the world.
    >
    > If this is true about the US, how can the average American live under
    > such a system and not lose their mind???
    >
    > Life can't all be about work. It seems such a system would breed
    > highly neurotic and hysterical people. I wouldn't want to live like
    > that no matter how much they paid me.
    >

Pretty much... Some companies don't even give vacation or health benefits
or any other benefit.

In my last company you could get 20 working (business, i.e. Monday to
Friday) days per year, plus you were allowed to carry some over. This was
the equivalent of about 4 weeks vacation, but in the end you were never
really able to take more than a week off at a time, so the possibility of
going on a trip somewhere and relax away from things was impractical.

Labor laws in the US are pretty much a joke. In the infamous state of
Florida there is something called laughably a "right to work law". It
translates as no wrokers unions and no rights for the employee, it
basically states that you can be fired for any reason and at any time.

If you get a new boss and he/she doesn't like your face out the door you
are. In fact most businesses are a scourge to society despite popular
opinion to the contrary.

Businesses are constantly crying on the shoulder of the government that
if this or that law to protect and/or benefit the workers is enacted it
will surely mean the bankruptcy of said business.

The salsry disparity is incredible, the difference between the highest
paid executive and the lowest paid employee and be hundreds of percentage
points.

Businesses (Corporations) often influence politics and politicians by
"donating" millions of dollars to support a candidate in exchange for
special favors.

Companies routinely "merge" in order to "bring greater variety to the
consumer". The end result are massive "layoffs" with complete disregard
for the employees, some of which could be of an age that would make it
difficult to find a new job.

Corporations routinely dismiss staff in order to "reorganize" despite the
fact that they are making millions if not billions in profits. In fact
the US goverment currently gives benefits to companies for leaving US
soil and manufacturing and/or provide a service abroad, because allegedly
they "cannot compete". Meanwhile 2004 was a record sale year for luxury
yachts.

It works like this: if you work money is automatically deducted from your
paycheck in the manner of taxes, these taxes then go to the government,
which in turn gives it to multi-billion corporations so that they can
fire you and then they can go set up shop in a foreign country where
labor laws are even more attrocious than in the US, in additon to paying
the employees in aforementioned country pennies on the dollare compared
to what they were peying here.
 
Old Oct 27th 2004, 3:54 pm   #40
AcydSkull
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Default Re: ONLY TWO WEEKS VACATION PER YEAR IN THE US???

"Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]
berlin.de:

    >
    > Jonathan <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >
    >> When an American friend told me people in the US only have two weeks
    >
    > Thats bullshit.
    >
    >> of paid leave PER YEAR I could scarcely believe
    >> it. He said yeah but we get paid public holidays.
    >
    >> In the UK we get 4 to 5 weeks paid leave plus public holidays .
    >> Other countries like France get 5 to 6 weeks plus public holidays.
    >
    >> Plus they only work 35 hours per week yet they are
    >> one of the most productive countries in the world.
    >
    > Like hell they are.
    >
    >> If this is true about the US,
    >
    > It aint.
    >
    >> how can the average American live under
    >> such a system and not lose their mind???
    >
    > No 'mind' to lose with most of them.
    >
    >> Life can't all be about work. It seems such a system
    >> would breed highly neurotic and hysterical people.
    >
    > No comment.
    >
    >> I wouldn't want to live like that no matter how much they paid me.
    >
    > No one would be silly enough to pay you a cent.
    >
    > You cant even manage a viable troll, child.
    >
    >

what a blithering imbecile
 
Old Oct 27th 2004, 3:59 pm   #41
Informer
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Default Re: ONLY TWO WEEKS VACATION PER YEAR IN THE US???

<[email protected]> wrote i

    > Look at American foreign policy. If that's not neurotic I don't know
    > what is. The neurosis percolates to all levels, which is why you'll
    > find people defending the status quo but unable to dispute the facts.
    > Take the fact that the average work year has increased in the U.S.
    > while its decreased elsewhere. What's the reward to the average
    > American worker? Outsourcing, reduction or loss of benefits, and more
    > stress.

Yeh who would want to be an American. They are a neurotic lot, just look at
their support for that idiot Bush. Yet it is his foreign policy that has
much of the world against America.
 
Old Oct 27th 2004, 4:02 pm   #42
Informer
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Default Re: ONLY TWO WEEKS VACATION PER YEAR IN THE US???

"Jane Sitton" <[email protected]> wrote


    > There are no set laws that I know of regarding how much vacation a
    > company offers. Nowadays, many companies get around offering vacation
    > altogether by hiring only part-time employees.
    > --Jane

In the UK the absolote minimum the law allows is 4 weeks plus public
holidays. I would not work for a company that offered less than 5 weeks.
 
Old Oct 27th 2004, 4:18 pm   #43
The Reids
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Default Re: ONLY TWO WEEKS VACATION PER YEAR IN THE US???

Following up to Richard

    >Perhaps rather than thinking about less-for-more, you should think about
    >different. Find a line of work that you enjoy and you won't feel compelled
    >to find ways to work fewer hours.

There are only so many jobs like that, the majority are doing
jobs only because they have to. How many would go to work if they
didn't get pay at the end or if they had money from other
sources?
I used to do a job I enjoyed (relatively) and used to often work
very late when it suited me. But however hard I might have
worked, I took every day of my six weeks+ leave as did most
others, it not living to be tied to work 50 weeks a year.
The US is very rich and very polluting, it needs to consume less
stuff and relax a bit.
Why is the US in this position? Is it that to run in politics
needs big money in US, so only big business favoured people get
to high office?
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email [email protected] this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- [email protected] all, it's a spamtrap
 
Old Oct 27th 2004, 4:18 pm   #44
The Reids
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Default Re: ONLY TWO WEEKS VACATION PER YEAR IN THE US???

Following up to Yaofeng

    >> I work for a very large UK company. I am on a 36 hour week, I work one 5
    >> day week followed by one 4 day week (Monday to Friday) this equates to 26
    >> scheduled days off a year. On top of that I get 6 weeks annual leave. Add
    >> the 26 scheduled days off makes a total of 11 weeks 1 day plus the public
    >> holidays.
    >That's why everything is so expensive in the UK. Isn't it? Gasoline
    >prices 3 to 4 times those of the US

That's tax policy, probably applies to all European countries,
discourages wastefully big cars. From our point of view Its more
a case of why does US have such environmentally unsound low gas
prices?
This isn't a UK issue anyway, more US/Europe.

    > meals 1.5 to 2 times, groceries,
    >etc... Because you produce to little...

Maybe, productivity probably isn't the only factor. Spain is much
cheaper than UK, with more holidays. UK has lowest European
holidays IIRC.
Do remember one mans price cut is another mans pay cut or leave
cut. so if you worship capitalism and low prices/high production
you end up with the employee getting squeezed and sooner or later
that means you! What's so great about producing a lot, owning
loads of pointless "stuff" but having no time to yourself? US is
always going on about "land of the free", but 2 weeks leave isn't
the European or my idea of freedom. More "land of wage slavery"
from my point of view.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email [email protected] this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- [email protected] all, it's a spamtrap
 
Old Oct 27th 2004, 4:22 pm   #45
Js
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Default Re: ONLY TWO WEEKS VACATION PER YEAR IN THE US???

"Yaofeng" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] m...
    > "Informer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
    > > "Jonathan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]
    > > > When an American friend told me people in the US only have two weeks
    > > > of paid leave PER YEAR I could scarcely believe it. He said yeah but
    > > > we get paid public holidays.
    > > >
    > > > In the UK we get 4 to 5 weeks paid leave plus public holidays . Other
    > > > countries like France get 5 to 6 weeks plus public holidays. Plus
    > > > they only work 35 hours per week yet they are one of the most
    > > > productive countries in the world.
    > >
    > > I work for a very large UK company. I am on a 36 hour week, I work one
5
    > > day week followed by one 4 day week (Monday to Friday) this equates to
26
    > > scheduled days off a year. On top of that I get 6 weeks annual leave.
Add
    > > the 26 scheduled days off makes a total of 11 weeks 1 day plus the
public
    > > holidays.
    > That's why everything is so expensive in the UK. Isn't it? Gasoline
    > prices 3 to 4 times those of the US, meals 1.5 to 2 times, groceries,
    > etc... Because you produce to little...

I'd pay the extra cash for that kind of vacation time!
 
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