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Old Oct 27th 2004, 6:16 am   #16
Deep Frayed Morgues
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Default Re: ONLY TWO WEEKS VACATION PER YEAR IN THE US???

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 01:43:38 -0400, "D. Lloyd" <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >"Jonathan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]
    >> When an American friend told me people in the US only have two weeks
    >> of paid leave PER YEAR I could scarcely believe it. He said yeah but
    >> we get paid public holidays.
    >> In the UK we get 4 to 5 weeks paid leave plus public holidays . Other
    >> countries like France get 5 to 6 weeks plus public holidays. Plus
    >> they only work 35 hours per week yet they are one of the most
    >> productive countries in the world.
    >Most Europeans have much more time for themselves and their families than
    >North Americans. Canadians (of which I am one) also suffer under a system
    >which requires them to work far more than is healthy. Most people here also
    >start off with 2 weeks vacation, which only slowly increases after several
    >years with a company. Unfortunately, over here, 40 hours per week is
    >typical and it's quite often more depending on the type of job you do. It's
    >odd here, most people would love more time off, yet they grab whatever
    >overtime they can get in some desperate attemp to "get ahead". By the time
    >we get ahead (which is not always the case) we are old with such a short
    >time left to enjoy.
    >> If this is true about the US, how can the average American live under
    >> such a system and not lose their mind???
    >I guess it's because it's been that way for a long time and people expect
    >it. Not that it hasn't taken a toll on society at large. When a society
    >places it's citizens in a position of racing to keep up to everyone else,
    >it's bound to affect them in unhealthy ways. Just look at the current state
    >of American society (and Canada to a lesser degree). Not very good.
    >> Life can't all be about work. It seems such a system would breed
    >> highly neurotic and hysterical people. I wouldn't want to live like
    >> that no matter how much they paid me.
    >In the U.S. it isn't all about work. It's all about money. Specifically
    >making money for the Rich. In order to do that, citizens must believe that
    >it is possible to grab a piece of the American dream no matter how small
    >that piece may be. Willing to trade so much of their lives for more money
    >so they can be more like all those rich and famous icons on American TV.
    >Constantly bombarded with advertisement for stuff which will fill the void
    >left because they have such little else in life. Only to desire more and
    >more because the void gets bigger and bigger. It's a sad fantasy. But I
    >think some people over here are starting to wake up from this fantasy.
    >People in Europe are very lucky. Don't fall for the fantasy. Don't ever
    >let them take that which is most precious to you......time.

I detest work. It bores and stresses me, and I am constantly looking
at ways to do less of it for more money. This is an attitude that was
viewed as blasphemy last time (early 2001) I was in the US. In the
company I was working at, it was expected that everyone arrived an
hour before they started getting paid, and stopped two hours after
they stopped getting paid. A large number of them worked at least one
day on the weekend too.

I suggested one day that we should all work our ass's of until 5:30
(after which we would not be being paid) and then go relax in a bar
over a couple of drinks, and casually discuss project strategy and
whatever other shit we could think of, and they looked at me like I
had antennae coming out of my head!

The real crunch came when I refused a green card offer. They really
seemed hurt by this.
---
DFM
 
Old Oct 27th 2004, 6:17 am   #17
Beachcomber
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Default Re: ONLY TWO WEEKS VACATION PER YEAR IN THE US???

    >> If this is true about the US, how can the average American
    >> live under such a system and not lose their mind???
    >Same reason they can stomach having a monkey for a president, and laws
    >like the "patriot act".
    >Now shut up and get back to work!


I know many people in America who never take a vacation day. If they
have a McJob (and this includes higher, and higher level people these
days), they are simply too afraid to take the time off, worry about
being replaced by a younger, or cuter, or more productive subordinate.

The company employment manual may say you have so many vacation days,
but more often than not, you are probably working for a boss who gives
you the evil eye if you make the request.

Most people who cling to these sorts of jobs are like zombies and they
have already lost their minds., they really are not concious about how
bad it is, and if they think at all, they think about how lucky they
are to still have a job, any job, while their co-workers are getting
shit-canned. Those with any luck at all still have labor unions and
things like health insurance, pension contributions, and a contract
that forces you to take the time off that you earned although the
current President seems hell bent on changing this.

Other people I know have there own businesses also refuse to take time
off because they fear they will loose clients, or business. At least
these people have a little more control of their own destiny.

Beachcomber
 
Old Oct 27th 2004, 7:35 am   #18
Nightjar
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Default Re: ONLY TWO WEEKS VACATION PER YEAR IN THE US???

"Jonathan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
    > When an American friend told me people in the US only have two weeks
    > of paid leave PER YEAR I could scarcely believe it. He said yeah but
    > we get paid public holidays.
    > In the UK we get 4 to 5 weeks paid leave plus public holidays .

Some companies may offer that, as I do for my employees. However, the
statutory minimum is four working weeks and the public holidays count as
part of that four weeks.

    > Other
    > countries like France get 5 to 6 weeks plus public holidays. Plus
    > they only work 35 hours per week yet they are one of the most
    > productive countries in the world.

The 35 hour week in France was political move, aimed at reducing
unemployment. Unfortunately, while it may have increased the number of
unskilled jobs, it did not magically increase the number of skilled workers
and there is a serious shortage of those. The government there is no
seriously considering making it possible to work longer hours, in much the
same way that workers can opt out of the UK's 48 hour maximum.

    > If this is true about the US, how can the average American live under
    > such a system and not lose their mind???
    > Life can't all be about work. It seems such a system would breed
    > highly neurotic and hysterical people. I wouldn't want to live like
    > that no matter how much they paid me.

I can remember when 50 hours a week or more and two weeks holiday was as
much as any Briton could expect. A lot of people would use those two weeks
doing a seasonal job, like hop picking, because the holidays were unpaid. It
was what people were used to and it is only by comparison with what we get
today that it seems harsh to some people. However, as a UK employer, I find
that my main problem is keeping overtime under control. My staff generally
prefer to work longer hours for the extra money. While that is useful when
there is a short-term increase in workload, productivity suffers if it goes
on for more than a couple of weeks.

Colin Bignell
 
Old Oct 27th 2004, 8:44 am   #19
Mark Hewitt
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Default Re: ONLY TWO WEEKS VACATION PER YEAR IN THE US???

"Jonathan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
    > When an American friend told me people in the US only have two weeks
    > of paid leave PER YEAR I could scarcely believe it. He said yeah but
    > we get paid public holidays.
    > In the UK we get 4 to 5 weeks paid leave plus public holidays . Other
    > countries like France get 5 to 6 weeks plus public holidays. Plus
    > they only work 35 hours per week yet they are one of the most
    > productive countries in the world.
    > If this is true about the US, how can the average American live under
    > such a system and not lose their mind???
    > Life can't all be about work. It seems such a system would breed
    > highly neurotic and hysterical people. I wouldn't want to live like
    > that no matter how much they paid me.

So I hear :-(. I also hear that it often takes a long time to 'work up' to
getting two weeks off!

Personally I get 30 days not including public holidays and Christmas week.
And tbh I usually stuggle to take them all through the year. It looks like
I'm going to have a week off next month sometime and just stay at home!

There is a certain amount of holiday days, I forget the number, that we
*must* take by law. You have no choice in the matter, the last company I
worked for sometimes had to force people to stay at home to comply with the
law!
 
Old Oct 27th 2004, 9:58 am   #20
nitram
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Default Re: ONLY TWO WEEKS VACATION PER YEAR IN THE US???

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:26:47 -0400, Dick Cheney
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Jonathan wrote:
    >
    >> When an American friend told me people in the US only have two
    >> weeks of paid leave PER YEAR I could scarcely believe it.
    >It's called the protestant worth ethic.
    >Work will set you free.

That was Nazi work ethic.
--
Martin
 
Old Oct 27th 2004, 10:37 am   #21
Icono Clast
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Default Re: ONLY TWO WEEKS VACATION PER YEAR IN THE US???

Jonathan wrote:
    > When an American friend told me people in the US only have two weeks
    > of paid leave PER YEAR I could scarcely believe it.

I wouldn't. The last two week vacation I earned was in 1960 that I
took the last two weeks of January, 1961.

In the '60s I had three week vacations but often took six.

In the '70s and '80s I had four week vacations that turned into nine
weeks by taking the vacation earned last year starting ThanksGiving
Wednesday and the vacation earned this year starting January 2.
ThanksGiving Thursday and Friday = 2 days; Christmas Eve = ½ day and
Christmas = 1 day. New Year's Day = 1 day a total of 4½ days for a
nine-week vacation that was actually eight weeks plus 4½ days.

In the '90s I had five week vacations and, were I still working,
would still have those five week vacations.

Holidays:
New Year's Day
Presidents' Day
Memorial Day
Independence Day
Labor Day
ThanksGiving Day
ThanksGiving Friday
Christmas Eve (½ day)
Christmas Day
Anniversary date
Birth date

That's 10½ holidays.

The last 40-hour work-week I had was in 1957 when I started a job
with a 37½-hour work week. Most of my work life was 35-hour weeks.
One decade was 32 hours and I didn't take a lunch break so my actual
door-to-door workday was seven hours.

Whoops. I had two minimum-wage jobs in Manhattan that were 40-hour
weeks but that was just long enough to get enough money to hitch-hike
home.

    > If this is true about the US, how can the average American
    > live under such a system and not lose their mind???

I have heard that there are still people in the USA who work 40-hour
weeks for 2-week vacations but I don't know any. Does anyone?

    > Life can't all be about work.

Mine wasn't. For eleven years during the '70s and '80s I hardly
worked at all, one year earing $500 and another about $15,000 with
varying amounts in between.

How? <http://geocities.com/iconoc/Articles/History.html> if you're
really interested.

    > It seems such a system would breed highly neurotic
> and hysterical people.

Shhh. You're not supposed to know that.

    > I wouldn't want to live like
    > that no matter how much they paid me.

The regressive new overtime law recently passed by the US Congress
makes it even worse than you said. Please see:
http://geocities.com/iconoc/Articles/Overtime.html
__________________________________________________ __________
One of (as of 2003) 751,682 residents of San Francisco
http://geocities.com/dancefest/ http://geocities.com/iconoc/
ICQ: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103 IClast at SFbay Net
 
Old Oct 27th 2004, 11:06 am   #22
Magda
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Default Re: ONLY TWO WEEKS VACATION PER YEAR IN THE US???

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:23:13 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, Mxsmanic <[email protected]>
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

... Jonathan writes:
...
... > When an American friend told me people in the US only have two weeks
... > of paid leave PER YEAR I could scarcely believe it. He said yeah but
... > we get paid public holidays.
...
... Many people don't get any paid leave at all.

Now, you *have* to be kidding us. Are you telling us that slave work is legal over there??
 
Old Oct 27th 2004, 11:33 am   #23
Sascha
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Default Re: ONLY TWO WEEKS VACATION PER YEAR IN THE US???

"Gregory Toomey" <[email protected]> schrieb:

    > By way of comparison, the average in Australia is 4-5 weeks vacation.
    > Plus Australia has free healthcare, funded pensions, a growing budget
    > surplus, & has been the best performing western economy for 5 years.
    > Ooh, and the best beaches.

Ooh, and friendly people aplenty:-)
 
Old Oct 27th 2004, 11:52 am   #24
Claim Guy
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Default Re: ONLY TWO WEEKS VACATION PER YEAR IN THE US???

France? Productive?

U-huh


"Jonathan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
    > When an American friend told me people in the US only have two weeks
    > of paid leave PER YEAR I could scarcely believe it. He said yeah but
    > we get paid public holidays.
    > In the UK we get 4 to 5 weeks paid leave plus public holidays . Other
    > countries like France get 5 to 6 weeks plus public holidays. Plus
    > they only work 35 hours per week yet they are one of the most
    > productive countries in the world.
    > If this is true about the US, how can the average American live under
    > such a system and not lose their mind???
    > Life can't all be about work. It seems such a system would breed
    > highly neurotic and hysterical people. I wouldn't want to live like
    > that no matter how much they paid me.
 
Old Oct 27th 2004, 11:54 am   #25
Tom Bellhouse
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Default Re: ONLY TWO WEEKS VACATION PER YEAR IN THE US???

"Deep Frayed Morgues" <[email protected]!l.nu> wrote
in message

(snip)

    > I detest work. It bores and stresses me, and I am constantly looking
    > at ways to do less of it for more money. This is an attitude that was
    > viewed as blasphemy last time (early 2001) I was in the US. In the
    > company I was working at, it was expected that everyone arrived an
    > hour before they started getting paid, and stopped two hours after
    > they stopped getting paid. A large number of them worked at least one
    > day on the weekend too.
(snip)
=======
Consider the plight of Registered Nurses here in the U.S. Eight hour
shifts were once the norm. The bean-counters realized that by going to
12 hour shifts, payrolls (and benefits) could be reduced by 1/3. Now
12-hour shifts are the norm. To perform that work, a nurse needs to
arrive at work early to take report on patients, and usually stays late
to give report and clean up loose ends (no pun intended.) Paperwork
abounds, and cuts into time for patient care. So, given time for the
trip to and from work, most nurses' work day requires that about 14
hours be dedicated to getting there, working and getting back home. Any
wonder there's a nursing shortage in the U.S.?

Tom, RN
 
Old Oct 27th 2004, 12:02 pm   #26
Yaofeng
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: ONLY TWO WEEKS VACATION PER YEAR IN THE US???

"Informer" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "Jonathan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > When an American friend told me people in the US only have two weeks
    > > of paid leave PER YEAR I could scarcely believe it. He said yeah but
    > > we get paid public holidays.
    > >
    > > In the UK we get 4 to 5 weeks paid leave plus public holidays . Other
    > > countries like France get 5 to 6 weeks plus public holidays. Plus
    > > they only work 35 hours per week yet they are one of the most
    > > productive countries in the world.
    >
    > I work for a very large UK company. I am on a 36 hour week, I work one 5
    > day week followed by one 4 day week (Monday to Friday) this equates to 26
    > scheduled days off a year. On top of that I get 6 weeks annual leave. Add
    > the 26 scheduled days off makes a total of 11 weeks 1 day plus the public
    > holidays.


That's why everything is so expensive in the UK. Isn't it? Gasoline
prices 3 to 4 times those of the US, meals 1.5 to 2 times, groceries,
etc... Because you produce to little...
 
Old Oct 27th 2004, 12:25 pm   #27
Mark Hewitt
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: ONLY TWO WEEKS VACATION PER YEAR IN THE US???

"Yaofeng" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] m...
    > "Informer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > That's why everything is so expensive in the UK. Isn't it? Gasoline
    > prices 3 to 4 times those of the US, meals 1.5 to 2 times, groceries,
    > etc... Because you produce to little...

The fuel prices are very high because of the tax (c.80% of the price is
tax). Food prices are high because of the tax on fuel.
 
Old Oct 27th 2004, 12:37 pm   #28
Ted Ng
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Default Re: ONLY TWO WEEKS VACATION PER YEAR IN THE US???

"Jonathan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
    > When an American friend told me people in the US only have two weeks
    > of paid leave PER YEAR I could scarcely believe it. He said yeah but
    > we get paid public holidays.
    > In the UK we get 4 to 5 weeks paid leave plus public holidays . Other
    > countries like France get 5 to 6 weeks plus public holidays. Plus
    > they only work 35 hours per week yet they are one of the most
    > productive countries in the world.

Even if what you are saying is true, all signs point to the ending of the
35-hour work week.

    > If this is true about the US, how can the average American live under
    > such a system and not lose their mind???

It sucks, but I see in the news that business conditions are now forcing
Europe to cut back on the extensive social welfare system. Specifically,
unemployment benefits are being significantly reduced, employees must work
longer hours and additional years before retiring. Frankly, western Europe
has no choice. As long as they want free trade, they will have to compete
with the much lower wages in eastern Europe and the far east. The wrenching
changes the US has gone through over the past decade, western Europe will
also have to experience. It's Business 101. That, or we re-erect trade
barriers against countries that don't follow similar labor practices. Is it
fair for American and European workers to compete against workers in other
countries who make 1/10 the salary and have no benefits or workplace safety
regulations? Some economists say this is good, others say it isn't. I don't
know who to believe. All I know is whenever I go into the store, I struggle
to find anything that isn't manufactured in China, stuff that we used to
make. It makes me sad.
 
Old Oct 27th 2004, 12:47 pm   #29
Juliana L Holm
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: ONLY TWO WEEKS VACATION PER YEAR IN THE US???

In rec.travel.europe Dick Cheney <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Jonathan wrote:
    >
    >> When an American friend told me people in the US only have two
    >> weeks of paid leave PER YEAR I could scarcely believe it.

    > It's called the protestant worth ethic.

    > Work will set you free.

That is what it says on the iron gate to Auschwitz.
--
Julie
**********
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm
 
Old Oct 27th 2004, 12:51 pm   #30
Chuck
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: ONLY TWO WEEKS VACATION PER YEAR IN THE US???

"Jonathan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

<snip>
    > In the UK we get 4 to 5 weeks paid leave plus public holidays . Other
    > countries like France get 5 to 6 weeks plus public holidays. Plus
    > they only work 35 hours per week yet they are one of the most
    > productive countries in the world.

<snip>


Bunch of lazy bastards!!! :)


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