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Getting a Driver's License Is a Royal Pain in Britain

Getting a Driver's License Is a Royal Pain in Britain

Old Oct 30th 2002, 9:02 pm
  #61  
William A. T. Clark
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Default Re: Getting a Driver's License Is a Royal Pain in Britain

In article ,
[email protected] (Nate Nagel) wrote:

    > [email protected] wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    > > The examiners quietly made small marks on their clipboards, never
    > > revealing how the drivers were doing until the test was finished. But
    > > the test-takers know from their lessons that the examiners watch out
    > > for compliance with some of the peculiarities of British driving
    > > etiquette. Among them: When stopping at a red light, use the
    > > handbrake, not the foot brake. Never cross your hands when turning the
    > > steering wheel. And never, ever, wave to a pedestrian to signal that
    > > it's OK to cross the street. Even agency officials admit that many
    > > drivers ignore these rules as soon as the test is over.
    >
    > Just curious, if any YooKay residents can shed any insight, what is
    > the rationale for not crossing hands? I was *taught* (US) to use that
    > method for tight turns, although I can see where that could be bad in
    > the case of airbag deployment. I tend to drive "Italian style" (hands
    > at 4 and 8, shuffle-steering) naturally anyway, although, say, in my
    > Daytona (manual steering, lots of turns lock-to-lock, and a big
    > American V-8 over the front wheels) I find it easier to use the
    > hand-over-hand method at slow speeds.

Crossing the hands reduces control of the vehicle - the wheel should be
"fed" through the hands in tight turns. The accepted way in the UK is 10
and 2 with the hands.

    >
    > Also, why the requirement to use the hand brake? Do cars in the
    > YooKay activate the brake lights with the hand brake on? I can see
    > that practice causing lots of problems here as most drivers barely
    > stop in time even with nice bright brake lights (and CHMSLs to boot)
    >

No, but resting on the foot brake is inherently risky. If anything
dostracts or interferes with the driver and the foot comes off the brake
- disaster. If the handbrake is on, the driver can do what he or she
wants without (for the most part) endangering others.

William Clark
 
Old Oct 30th 2002, 9:03 pm
  #62  
Brent P
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Default Re: Getting a Driver's License Is a Royal Pain in Britain

In article , Alex Rodriguez wrote:

    >>Retroactive at that?
    >
    > Sure, why not. I wouldn't mind paying $75 to get re-tested as long as
    > it also applies to all others. That would make driving a much better
    > experience for all involved.

The same level of required knowledge as some of the better european
tests minus all the BS requirements of driver's schools, etc. Make it
such that the knowledge was required, but people could learn on their
own or take classes of their own choosing. The cost for a license in
the USA should then remain low, provided one can teach himself or
have someone who can help him.
 
Old Oct 30th 2002, 9:06 pm
  #63  
William A. T. Clark
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Default Re: Getting a Driver's License Is a Royal Pain in Britain

In article , [email protected]
(Alex Rodriguez) wrote:

    > In article , [email protected] says...
    > >
    > >On 30 Oct 2002 17:56:51 GMT, [email protected] (Alex Rodriguez)
    > >wrote:
    > >
    > >>Don't I wish the US had similar standards.
    > >
    > >Retroactive at that?
    >
    > Sure, why not. I wouldn't mind paying $75 to get re-tested as long as
    > it also applies to all others. That would make driving a much better
    > experience for all involved.
    > -----------------
    > Alex __O
    > _-\ (_)/ (_)
    >
    >

Actually, you probably wouldn't. In my view about 90% of all US drivers
would fail the UK driving test spectacularly (and I may be being
generous to the other 10% here). Driving to work on the freeway still
makes my blood run cold after more than 20 years.

William Clark
 
Old Oct 30th 2002, 9:09 pm
  #64  
William A. T. Clark
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Default Re: Getting a Driver's License Is a Royal Pain in Britain

In article , Barbara Vaughan
wrote:

    > BrianE wrote:
    > >
    > > "Barbara Vaughan" wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > [email protected] wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > Getting a Driver's License Is a Royal Pain in Britain
    > > >
    > > > Can someone explain to me why you're supposed to use your hand brake
    > > > instead of your foot brake when stopping at a red light?
    > > You mean, you really really can't work that out for yourself?
    > >
    > > Just imagine you're on an incline, when you take your foot off the
    > > brake you
    > > roll back into the motorist behind.
    > >
    > > Now, if you followed the correct procedure as is explained by your
    > > instructor regarding a hill start, then this wouldn't happen.
    > >
    > > For the purpose of the driving test can you explain why you have a
    > > problem
    > > with the handbrake. Millions of us have manged so far...
    > >
    > > Just go with the flow, follow the rules and you'll cruise the test.
    >
    > I've passed driving tests in both the US and in Italy, thank you, and
    > have no need to pass another one in England. I use the hand brake when I
    > stop on a steep incline, to avoid rolling back when I start up again.
    > When I was a novice driver, I used to use the hand brake when stopping
    > even on moderate slopes. However, unless the incline is quite steep I've
    > managed just fine with the foot brake since the age of 20, and in 40
    > years of driving have never rolled back into anyone.
    >
    > Barbara

Yes, well judging by this note, you might find the UK driving test more
than you bargained for. Certainly compared with the joke that is the US
test.

William Clark
 
Old Oct 30th 2002, 9:11 pm
  #65  
Luca Logi
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Default Re: Getting a Driver's License Is a Royal Pain in Britain

R J Carpenter wrote:

    > Starting on a hill with a manual transmission without using the hand brake
    > is a skill that should be mastered by any driver of a manual transmission
    > car. That said, using the hand brake can make the restart easier.

And, I would add, using the hand brake is less stressful on the clutch.

-- -----------------------------------------------------
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: [email protected]
 
Old Oct 30th 2002, 9:13 pm
  #66  
William A. T. Clark
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Default Re: Getting a Driver's License Is a Royal Pain in Britain

In article , "nightjar"
wrote:

    > wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...


... snip, snip ..

    >
    > > Most test-takers don't cut it. Britain's pass rate is under 44% and
    > > falling. That makes driving tests in places such as New York, where
    > > 61% of drivers pass, seem a relative breeze.
    >
    > This is a typically meaninigless use of statistics. The difference
    > between
    > the pass rates in Britain and those in New York might be a measure of the
    > relative toughness of the tests, but it could also be that New Yorkers
    > don't
    > take a test until they are much better prepared than the average Briton.
    >

Absolutely not. I can't think of any NY student drivers who can a) make
a three-point turn, or b) reverse around a corner without hitting the
kerb. That's just for starters. The level of inexperience and ineptitude
that we let high schoolers out onto our roads with in this country is
truly terrifying.

William Clark
 
Old Oct 30th 2002, 9:16 pm
  #67  
William A. T. Clark
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Default Re: Getting a Driver's License Is a Royal Pain in Britain

In article , Frank Matthews
wrote:

    > nightjar wrote:
    > > wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    >
    > >>LONDON -- When John Plott, who lives near Glasgow, recently passed his
    > >>British driving test, he didn't say a word to the examiner, not even
    > >>thanks. "Basically I wanted to get out of the motor car before he
    > >>changed his mind," he says.
    >
    > >>It's easy to understand why. Mr. Plott had failed the test 15 times
    > >>before.
    >
    > > A good reason to impose a maximum limit on the number of times you can
    > > sit
    > > the test. Anyone who takes that many tries to achieve the low level of
    > > skills needed to pass the test will probably never be a safe driver.
    >
    > >>It also calls for such
    > >>maneuvers as driving backwards around a corner and up the street along
    > >>the curb. Touch the curb with the wheel and you flunk.
    >
    > > Those are very basic vehicle handling skills.
    >
    > Yes, it's amazing how often I've found it necessary to back around a
    > corner. Wait a minute. Surely it's happened at least once in the last
    > 40 years. Well I guess not. But it's still a really basic skill.
    > Perhaps everyone should have to do it while towing a trailer.
    >
    > Frank Matthews

Your obviously haven't watched the average Chevy driver try to negotiate
into a kerbside parking place four feet longer than his or her car, have
you?

It's truly frightening.

William Clark
 
Old Oct 30th 2002, 9:25 pm
  #68  
Johnt
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Default Re: Getting a Driver's License Is a Royal Pain in Britain

"Ignasi Palou-Rivera" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > [email protected] (Ricardo) writes:
    > > Otoh, one probably doesn't even NEED a driver's licence in the UK. I
    > > got by perfectly ok without one.
    > Driving or not driving? Most of the UK's public transportation is
    > pretty crappy these days, and in all cases it's quite expensive. But
    > then what isn't too expensive in the UK?

Care to offer some examples?

JohnT
 
Old Oct 30th 2002, 9:32 pm
  #69  
Harvey V
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Default Re: Getting a Driver's License Is a Royal Pain in Britain

On Wed, 30 Oct 2002 22:09:19 GMT, William A. T. Clark wrote

-snip-

    >
    > Yes, well judging by this note, you might find the UK driving test
    > more than you bargained for. Certainly compared with the joke that
    > is the US test.
    >
    > William Clark

Slight change of topic, getting a bit specific again.

What I *do* find odd in our modern UK test -- I haven't done the test
since this came in, but confirmed it by reference to booklets stocked
at my local WHSmith library -- is that one is penalised if one shifts
down through the gears.

The *only* accepted way -- as I understand it -- to slow and stop a car
which is in, say, fourth gear, is to remain in fourth and to slow down
to a point at which one can put the clutch in and stop.

You get marked down if you've shifted down from fourth, to third, to
second, and then stopped.

I was curious about this -- I was taught precisely the opposite -- and
it seems to be rooted in the idea that (as one of the books put it)
"modern brakes can be trusted", and that taking one's hand off the
steering wheel to shift down is more risky than putting one's faith in
the soundness of one's brakes.

If I had to take the test again, I would of course do what the test
asked.

I'd then go back to shifting down through the gears -- from fourth, to
third, to second -- as that still seems a less risky way of coming down
from 50 miles an hour to a full stop.

My car is constantly and properly serviced, but I still prefer to use
both the engine and the brakes, in tandem, to bring it to a stop.

--
Cheers,
Harvey

For e-mail, harvey becomes whhvs.
 
Old Oct 30th 2002, 9:38 pm
  #70  
Dave C.
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Default Re: Getting a Driver's License Is a Royal Pain in Britain

" Bruce Bowe" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > The reason for that is this: We like to have a bunch of really crappy
    > drivers on our roads--and we do. That way, all of our cities and states
can
    > make more money from traffic tickets. It's an industry that, at least
IMO,

(snip)

Your theory would be correct, if it was only the crappy drivers getting the
tickets. But with everybody speeding, and speeding tickets being passed out
in lottery fashion . . . you've got a lot of good drivers throwing extra
ticket money into the pot, as well. This has nothing to do with driver
training. -Dave
 
Old Oct 30th 2002, 9:43 pm
  #71  
Ingsoc75
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Default Re: Getting a Driver's License Is a Royal Pain in Britain

In the UK you are not as reliant on cars as we are in the US. Public
transit is very available and unlike the US many people take it. I
feel that with the exception of the northeast corridor and major
cities the rest of the US is spread out and is built on using a car. I
do feel that the US should have a minumum driving age of 17 in all
states (I know quite a few have it and others have the graduated
driving license) but the infrastructure should be created to
compensate for getting people around who can't get their license or
fail it if a harder driving exam were implemented (wow that was a run
on sentance!)

That is hard though in a huge country like ours that loves it's car
freedom. I moved from St. Louis (that has no good public transit) to
Philadelphia last year and I am amazed at the available public transit
(Septa, Patco, NJ Transit etc). Amtrack is so plagued with problems
because they try to implement a train infrastructure found in small
european countries in a huge country like ours. Amtrack should stop
all routes except in the northeast corridor and other key areas of the
country where cities and population are concentrated. They might make
a profit!
 
Old Oct 30th 2002, 9:50 pm
  #72  
Joe Pessarra
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Getting a Driver's License Is a Royal Pain in Britain

"Roy" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "Bob Builder" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > And the result is :-
    > >
    > > The UK is one of the safest places in the world to drive.
    > >
    > >
    > > Bob
    > >
    > >
    > If you can avoid the Americans
    > Roy

Bob and Roy are both correct from my viewpoint. When I drive in Britain, I
always borrow an "L plate" (Learner plate) from my cousin, who is a driving
instructor. This way, I find I am given a wide berth by all British
drivers, and almost have the road to myself. )

Joe in Texas


--
"I love it when a plan comes together"-
Colonel John "Hannibal" Smith of the
A-Team, perfectly played by
George Peppard
 
Old Oct 30th 2002, 9:57 pm
  #73  
Alex Rodriguez
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Getting a Driver's License Is a Royal Pain in Britain

In article ,
[email protected] says...
    >In article , [email protected]
    >(Alex Rodriguez) wrote:
    >> In article , [email protected] says...
    >> >On 30 Oct 2002 17:56:51 GMT, [email protected] (Alex Rodriguez)
    >> >wrote:
    >> >>Don't I wish the US had similar standards.
    >> >Retroactive at that?
    >> Sure, why not. I wouldn't mind paying $75 to get re-tested as long as
    >> it also applies to all others. That would make driving a much better
    >> experience for all involved.

    >Actually, you probably wouldn't. In my view about 90% of all US drivers
    >would fail the UK driving test spectacularly (and I may be being
    >generous to the other 10% here). Driving to work on the freeway still
    >makes my blood run cold after more than 20 years.

Actually, I would. When I drive, I think about my driving. I would have
no problem studying a drivers manual to make sure I do what was expected
during the test. I'm sure I could pass the test. One reason I would
be so happy for it to be retroactive is that so many of the current drivers
on the road who don't think about driving when they are driving would lose
their license.
-----------------
Alex __O
_-\<,_
(_)/ (_)

 
Old Oct 30th 2002, 9:59 pm
  #74  
Alex Rodriguez
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Getting a Driver's License Is a Royal Pain in Britain

In article , [email protected]
says...

    >My car is constantly and properly serviced, but I still prefer to use
    >both the engine and the brakes, in tandem, to bring it to a stop.

I very rarely do this. I rely on my brakes to slow me down. Changing
brake pads is cheap and easy. Changing a clutch is expensive and time
consuming.
-----------------
Alex __O
_-\<,_
(_)/ (_)

 
Old Oct 30th 2002, 10:03 pm
  #75  
James Silverton
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Getting a Driver's License Is a Royal Pain in Britain

"Alex Rodriguez" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Don't I wish the US had similar standards.
    > -----------------
    > Alex __O
    > _-\ (_)/ (_)

Ah! all these expert drivers who realise that the others are incompetent!

Jim.
 

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