Chancellor Of The Duchy Of Besses O' Th' Barn And

Martin <[email protected]> wrote:

[]
    > Likewise the Dutch NS used to sell tickets in NL for unlimited travel
    > for X days on BR that unintentionally included the night sleeper to
    > Scotland, for less than the night sleeper fare.

Well, looking even at the raileurope site, some of their passes would be
quite good value depending on the distance travelled, and more
importantly the _time_. For example 8 days consecutive UK travel is
currently $300, or £171. If you wanted to travel from London to
Manchester on a day trip, and leave London before 9, that's going to
cost almost the same! (Of course, offpeak is £55- an astonishing
difference.)

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

Lennart Petersen

"chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco"
<[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet
news:1h0elu8.10s5u947oipb8N%this_address_is_for_sp [email protected]...
    > Lennart Petersen <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> "John Bermont" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet
    >> news:[email protected]...
    >> > Dayna wrote:
    >> >> Could anyone please tell me the difference in 1st and 2nd Class
    >> >> seating on ICE and IC trains?
    >> > First class has more room and costs 50% more.
    >> Normally but not always. Sometimes you'll find that 1cl have the same
    >> size
    >> as 2cl.
    >> And the price isn't always 50% more,
    >> In Norway, as an example the Komfort 1cl is at 75NOK supplement
    >> regardless
    >> of distance.
    >> In Sweden you may find prebooking 1cl tickets at a lower price than 2cl,
    >> same train !!
    > On those trains, wouldn't you be able to prebook 2nd class cheaper than
    > prebooked 1st?
No I'm talking about prebooking 1cl, the Just Nu price which oddly enough
sometimes is less expensive in 1cl vs 2cl same train and same booking
time.
Not always but many times so there're reason to look up or ask for the 1cl
price.

Phil Richards

Lennart Petersen wrote:

    > No I'm talking about prebooking 1cl, the Just Nu price which oddly enough
    > sometimes is less expensive in 1cl vs 2cl same train and same booking
    > time.

The same applies to SNCF's advance booking "Prems" fares, more availabiity
sometimes in 1st means a better fare than in 2nd.

    > Not always but many times so there're reason to look up or ask for the 1cl
    > price.

Good sales staff should really offer it rather than being asked for it!

--
Phil Richards
London, UK
Home Page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

michaelnewport

Phil Richards wrote:
    > Lennart Petersen wrote:
    > > No I'm talking about prebooking 1cl, the Just Nu price which oddly enough
    > > sometimes is less expensive in 1cl vs 2cl same train and same booking
    > > time.
    > The same applies to SNCF's advance booking "Prems" fares, more availabiity
    > sometimes in 1st means a better fare than in 2nd.

how true, I'm travelling Thalys 1st class from Brussels to Paris return
for Euro 100, from Antwerp in 2nd class its Euro 155 !

Jesper Lauridsen

On 2005-07-28, Rog' <[email protected]> wrote:
    > My 2 cents: Even if 1st class costs substantially more than 2d
    > class, and the comfort of the seats and luggage space in 1st class
    > is only slightly better, considering how much I'm spending on the
    > trip over-all, I'm gonna indulge myself and partake of this minor
    > luxury. =R=

What's the point of paying for a luxury that you would be hard pressed
to tell apart from the basic version?

Robert Clark

Jesper Lauridsen wrote:
    > On 2005-07-28, Rog' <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>My 2 cents: Even if 1st class costs substantially more than 2d
    >>class, and the comfort of the seats and luggage space in 1st class
    >>is only slightly better, considering how much I'm spending on the
    >>trip over-all, I'm gonna indulge myself and partake of this minor
    >>luxury. =R=
    >
    >
    > What's the point of paying for a luxury that you would be hard pressed
    > to tell apart from the basic version?

The higher 1st class fares, even when the comfort of the seats is not
significantly better than 2nd, serves to keep the riff-raff out. The
2nd class carriage may well suddenly fill-up with 40 noisy, inadequately
supervised, kids on a school trip. This is unlikely in 1st class. If
the trains are busy, then 2nd class often is standing-room only, while
1st will have seats to spare.

Casey

    >> The 2nd class carriage may well suddenly fill-up with 40 noisy,
    >> inadequately supervised, kids on a school trip.
    > Really?

This happened to me in May (grammar school kids).

Casey

Hatunen

On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 00:33:49 +0200, Robert Clark
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Jesper Lauridsen wrote:
    >> On 2005-07-28, Rog' <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>>My 2 cents: Even if 1st class costs substantially more than 2d
    >>>class, and the comfort of the seats and luggage space in 1st class
    >>>is only slightly better, considering how much I'm spending on the
    >>>trip over-all, I'm gonna indulge myself and partake of this minor
    >>>luxury. =R=
    >>
    >>
    >> What's the point of paying for a luxury that you would be hard pressed
    >> to tell apart from the basic version?
    >The higher 1st class fares, even when the comfort of the seats is not
    >significantly better than 2nd, serves to keep the riff-raff out.

I've crtainly seen little of what I might be called "riff-raff"
on ICEs. "Riff-raff" usually rides on the less-exlted trains.

    >The
    >2nd class carriage may well suddenly fill-up with 40 noisy, inadequately
    >supervised, kids on a school trip.

Really?

    >This is unlikely in 1st class. If
    >the trains are busy, then 2nd class often is standing-room only, while
    >1st will have seats to spare.

Hm. I've not seen standees on ICEs either. I admit my experience
isn't all that extensive.

************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Erilar

In article <[email protected]>, Hatunen
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > Hm. I've not seen standees on ICEs either. I admit my experience
    > isn't all that extensive.

Well, I've had to change seats often on one a couple times because it
wasn't the train I had intended to take and I had no seat reservation.
My train trips in Germany tend to involve less exalted trains at both
ends, since I'm often going from small place to small place and the ICE
is the middle train. RE and RB are often late.

--
Mary Loomer Oliver (aka Erilar)

You can't reason with someone whose first line of argument
is that reason doesn't count. Isaac Asimov

Erilar's Cave Annex: http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo

Lennart Petersen

"Hatunen" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet
news:[email protected]...
    > On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 00:33:49 +0200, Robert Clark
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>Jesper Lauridsen wrote:
    >>> On 2005-07-28, Rog' <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>My 2 cents: Even if 1st class costs substantially more than 2d
    >>>>class, and the comfort of the seats and luggage space in 1st class
    >>>>is only slightly better, considering how much I'm spending on the
    >>>>trip over-all, I'm gonna indulge myself and partake of this minor
    >>>>luxury. =R=
    >>> What's the point of paying for a luxury that you would be hard pressed
    >>> to tell apart from the basic version?
    >>The higher 1st class fares, even when the comfort of the seats is not
    >>significantly better than 2nd, serves to keep the riff-raff out.
    > I've crtainly seen little of what I might be called "riff-raff"
    > on ICEs. "Riff-raff" usually rides on the less-exlted trains.
    >>The
    >>2nd class carriage may well suddenly fill-up with 40 noisy, inadequately
    >>supervised, kids on a school trip.
    > Really?
    >>This is unlikely in 1st class. If
    >>the trains are busy, then 2nd class often is standing-room only, while
    >>1st will have seats to spare.
    > Hm. I've not seen standees on ICEs either. I admit my experience
    > isn't all that extensive.
Have been on ICEs totally overcrowded with standing passengers everywhere.
impossible to reach the dining car nor the toilets... A result when
reservation isn't compulsory. That's in contrast to TGV,Eurostar Italia,
X2000 and other quality trains.
However the situation is probably better today when the prebooking low price
tickets are valid for a specific train only. The idea of that ticket
system is to distribute passengers more evenly.
But with a full price ticket or a rail pass you may board any ICE without a
reservation.

Martin Theodor Ludwig

On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 00:33:49 +0200, Robert Clark
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >The higher 1st class fares, even when the comfort of the seats is not
    >significantly better than 2nd, serves to keep the riff-raff out.

In *some* ICE trains of the 401 series (called ICE-1) wagon number 7 is
a first-class wagon that is labeled as second class.

    >2nd class carriage may well suddenly fill-up with 40 noisy, inadequately
    >supervised, kids on a school trip. This is unlikely in 1st class.

It might becomes more likely now, as group discount is available only to
a limited number of places - and when these are sold out, first class
with group discount is less expensive than the other fares in 2nd ...

CU, Martin

Randee

Casey wrote:
    >
    > >> The 2nd class carriage may well suddenly fill-up with 40 noisy,
    > >> inadequately supervised, kids on a school trip.
    > >
    > > Really?
    >
    > This happened to me in May (grammar school kids).
    >
    > Casey


Happened to us too, once on the OBB, once on the SBB, and once on the FS
as I recall. Probably late grammar to early high school age. In no
case were they obnoxious, just, well, exuberant early teens.
--
wf.

Randee

Hatunen wrote:
    >
    > >This is unlikely in 1st class. If
    > >the trains are busy, then 2nd class often is standing-room only, while
    > >1st will have seats to spare.
    >
    > Hm. I've not seen standees on ICEs either. I admit my experience
    > isn't all that extensive.
    >
    >

We have certainly run into this on IC's, an example would be the Sunday
afternoon Venice/Milan trains.
--
wf.

Martin Bienwald

Hatunen schrieb:

    > Hm. I've not seen standees on ICEs either.

You obviously didn't travel before or after a major holiday. ICEs can
become *very* crowded at such times. (Well, seat reservation is available
well beforehand, so this is mostly somebody else's problem ;-))

... Martin

Jesper Lauridsen

On 2005-08-07, Robert Clark <[email protected]> wrote:
    > The higher 1st class fares, even when the comfort of the seats is not
    > significantly better than 2nd, serves to keep the riff-raff out.

The big step in avoiding the riff-raff is moving from smoking to non-smoking.