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-   -   "work to live" vs "live to work" (https://britishexpats.com/forum/trailer-park-96/work-live-vs-live-work-756328/)

elop Apr 27th 2012 1:03 am

"work to live" vs "live to work"
 
After reading many of the threads over the past couple of months I've seen many people compare the work ethics of UK/US in terms of living to work and working to live so I thought the topic deserved its own thread.
In most (all?) cases people seem to favour working to live. Am I the only one who prefers to live to work?

Maybe my understanding is different from others:

work to live:
don't particularly want to work but are forced to to "stay alive"
if suddenly won the lottery would not be working, or doing anything similar to work.
very clear business/pleasure divide.

live to work:
Most would still need the money, but is not the main incentive.
Enjoys job - would volunteer for extra work etc...
If suddenly won the lottery would probably still be doing the same thing (but perhaps slightly less)

Obviously I understand and agree that everyone needs a life outside work. But isn't that the same as saying that too much of something is bad? That should apply to everything, not just work. Surely too much of lying on the most beautiful beach in the world is not good either, or if you spent 8 hours a day every day with friends/family....would that not be excessive?

For those who are "work to live", what changes would you need in your life/work to become "live to work". For example, if someone paid you to do what you consider "life" - given that there are multiple aspects of everyone's life, just pick one of them. Would it be different if you owned your work....ie self-employed, or investor etc.

I realise that there are probably jobs out there which very few people enjoy....but there are many stories of such people who get honours and awards for doing the most menial of jobs to a great standard - I'm sure you can't get that by being simply "work to live".

If work is a necessary evil, it seems to be the highest recurring necessary evil. That is over 20% of the average person's life spent working. After you take away sleep, and other necessary evils of life (e.g. commuting, taking out rubbish, sorting out your broken car, and everything else you don't really enjoy doing, but have to) that probably leaves around 10% of your life. So you are using 20% of your life to achieve 10% of happiness (in the UK most of that 10% will be in the pub)....
Is it really worth being "work to live" for that 10%? Why not accept that to a certain extent work IS life (or part of it) and it therefore becomes 20% - ie, enjoy it.

At least for this forum, I hope its fair to assume that most people chose what they wanted to study/learn at some point, whether by professional education, or otherwise. With that assumption in mind, you should be doing what you've wanted to do, rather than forced into a profession - unless it was a wrong decision, of course.

Have I completely missed the point somewhere?

Derrygal Apr 27th 2012 1:17 am

Re: "work to live" vs "live to work"
 

Originally Posted by elop (Post 10027820)
After reading many of the threads over the past couple of months I've seen many people compare the work ethics of UK/US in terms of living to work and working to live so I thought the topic deserved its own thread.
In most (all?) cases people seem to favour working to live. Am I the only one who prefers to live to work?

Maybe my understanding is different from others:

work to live:
don't particularly want to work but are forced to to "stay alive"
if suddenly won the lottery would not be working, or doing anything similar to work.
very clear business/pleasure divide.

live to work:
Most would still need the money, but is not the main incentive.
Enjoys job - would volunteer for extra work etc...
If suddenly won the lottery would probably still be doing the same thing (but perhaps slightly less)

Obviously I understand and agree that everyone needs a life outside work. But isn't that the same as saying that too much of something is bad? That should apply to everything, not just work. Surely too much of lying on the most beautiful beach in the world is not good either, or if you spent 8 hours a day every day with friends/family....would that not be excessive?

For those who are "work to live", what changes would you need in your life/work to become "live to work". For example, if someone paid you to do what you consider "life" - given that there are multiple aspects of everyone's life, just pick one of them. Would it be different if you owned your work....ie self-employed, or investor etc.

I realise that there are probably jobs out there which very few people enjoy....but there are many stories of such people who get honours and awards for doing the most menial of jobs to a great standard - I'm sure you can't get that by being simply "work to live".

If work is a necessary evil, it seems to be the highest recurring necessary evil. That is over 20% of the average person's life spent working. After you take away sleep, and other necessary evils of life (e.g. commuting, taking out rubbish, sorting out your broken car, and everything else you don't really enjoy doing, but have to) that probably leaves around 10% of your life. So you are using 20% of your life to achieve 10% of happiness (in the UK most of that 10% will be in the pub)....
Is it really worth being "work to live" for that 10%? Why not accept that to a certain extent work IS life (or part of it) and it therefore becomes 20% - ie, enjoy it.

At least for this forum, I hope its fair to assume that most people chose what they wanted to study/learn at some point, whether by professional education, or otherwise. With that assumption in mind, you should be doing what you've wanted to do, rather than forced into a profession - unless it was a wrong decision, of course.
Have I completely missed the point somewhere?

Do you live in the real world? Have you seen the employment situation (or lack of it)? Many of us are not "doing what we want to do" but doing what we have to do in order to pay our bills, keep our health insurance and keep our heads above water.

elop Apr 27th 2012 1:47 am

Re: "work to live" vs "live to work"
 

Originally Posted by Derrygal (Post 10027830)
Do you live in the real world? Have you seen the employment situation (or lack of it)? Many of us are not "doing what we want to do" but doing what we have to do in order to pay our bills, keep our health insurance and keep our heads above water.

Well, maybe
but given the name of this website "British Expats", and this forum (USA) I'm expecting most people on here will be British who have, or want to move to the USA. Aside from those who are moving on a marriage-based Visa, the majority will have something to offer the USA which implies some sort of success in the UK. Not many people will get a visa to the US by not doing what they want to do and barely keeping heads above water - wouldn't you agree?

I know I've made some generalisations, but I've made them here, not on Yahoo Questions, or similar, I'm using this website and forum as the context for the topic.

N1cky Apr 27th 2012 3:28 am

Re: "work to live" vs "live to work"
 

Originally Posted by elop (Post 10027855)
Well, maybe
but given the name of this website "British Expats", and this forum (USA) I'm expecting most people on here will be British who have, or want to move to the USA. Aside from those who are moving on a marriage-based Visa, the majority will have something to offer the USA which implies some sort of success in the UK. Not many people will get a visa to the US by not doing what they want to do and barely keeping heads above water - wouldn't you agree?

I know I've made some generalisations, but I've made them here, not on Yahoo Questions, or similar, I'm using this website and forum as the context for the topic.

I think you've missed the point.

Most people work so hard because they have to, so they CAN live. If they don't work their balls off by going above and beyond and working silly hours, they will likely lose their job as there are 100s of people who will be prepared to do that.

md95065 Apr 27th 2012 3:36 am

Re: "work to live" vs "live to work"
 

Originally Posted by elop (Post 10027820)
For those who are "work to live", what changes would you need in your life/work to become "live to work". For example, if someone paid you to do what you consider "life" - given that there are multiple aspects of everyone's life, just pick one of them. Would it be different if you owned your work....ie self-employed, or investor etc.

My priorities and perspective have changed over time.

Until my mid to late 30's I didn't distinguish "work to live" and "live to work" - I needed to work to make enough money to live but I also enjoyed what I did so there was no conflict.

Now, at 56, I still need to "work to live" - after 35 years or so I don't particularly enjoy what I do any more, but I am still good at it and it pays well so the most practical thing for me to do right now is to stick with it until I feel that I have enough money stashed away to retire, which is probably still about another 5 years away ...

Of course I have ideas of other things that I would rather be doing, and some of them would actually produce some income, but they would not produce *enough* income for me to live on so I would end up having to spend some of my savings (which, as I said, are still not quite at the point that I would like them to be) and probably have to go on working much longer that I really want to.

Sorry, but youthful ideals pretty quickly take a back seat to needing to be able to pay the bills.

elop Apr 27th 2012 2:12 pm

Re: "work to live" vs "live to work"
 

Originally Posted by N1cky (Post 10027910)
I think you've missed the point.

Most people work so hard because they have to, so they CAN live. If they don't work their balls off by going above and beyond and working silly hours, they will likely lose their job as there are 100s of people who will be prepared to do that.

I'm afraid that wasn't exactly the point I was trying to make. The context here is British expats in USA. Most of such people had to go through a lot of trouble (H1-B, EB-1, and other visas), even if sponsored by a company there is often a huge loss made (selling houses, double tax etc). The conversations in here regarding 'work to live' are about people who don't want to work their balls off and want more holidays etc, but they came here knowing they would get less of that. If the idea was just to live, then why go through all the hassle, just stay in the UK and work at McDonald's - millions of people do that around the world and live comfortably - if they lose their jobs there is always KFC (or benifits).
Those on H1B or EB-1 tend to have degrees and possibly masters or PhD, and have invested time and money to do what they are doing - this doesn't seem to accurately describe the situation you are talking about.

WEBlue Apr 27th 2012 2:13 pm

Re: "work to live" vs "live to work"
 
I've done both "work to live" & "live to work". I've barely tolerated some jobs I've had & absolutely loved others, & this is in several different countries. Like anyone else, I prefer the latter, prefer to love what I'm doing so much that I jump out of bed eager to go to work. But working to live is OK too, better than unemployment IMO.

For years I worked a job in England (health services) with no sick days & very limited holiday time, so I never enjoyed the relaxed work/life balance that people on here seem to think is a such a hallmark of British employment. It was tough but I realize I miss it now.

elop Apr 27th 2012 2:14 pm

Re: "work to live" vs "live to work"
 

Originally Posted by md95065 (Post 10027915)
My priorities and perspective have changed over time.

Until my mid to late 30's I didn't distinguish "work to live" and "live to work" - I needed to work to make enough money to live but I also enjoyed what I did so there was no conflict.

Now, at 56, I still need to "work to live" - after 35 years or so I don't particularly enjoy what I do any more, but I am still good at it and it pays well so the most practical thing for me to do right now is to stick with it until I feel that I have enough money stashed away to retire, which is probably still about another 5 years away ...

So I guess that's the inevitable, I have that to look forward to :-)

SultanOfSwing Apr 27th 2012 2:34 pm

Re: "work to live" vs "live to work"
 
You're really quite far off the mark with your assumptions. Not everyone is lucky enough to be able to be able to do what they love or even what they 'chose to study'. Have you idea how many Ph.Ds are sitting in crappy dead end jobs because of the competition in their field?

Me, I only work because I have to. If I had the means I'd flick a v-sign to the job market and bugger off and have some fun.

ChocolateBabz Apr 27th 2012 2:53 pm

Re: "work to live" vs "live to work"
 

Originally Posted by elop (Post 10027820)
Obviously I understand and agree that everyone needs a life outside work. But isn't that the same as saying that too much of something is bad? That should apply to everything, not just work. Surely too much of lying on the most beautiful beach in the world is not good either, or if you spent 8 hours a day every day with friends/family....would that not be excessive?

But if you didn't have to work you wouldn't spend that time doing the same thing every day, you would be free to pursue whatever you wanted to.

I am sure there are some people who are genuinely happy to go to work every day and love what they do, I just haven't ever met a single one!

Uncle Ebenezer Apr 27th 2012 2:59 pm

Re: "work to live" vs "live to work"
 
Is today "International Idiots Day"?

SultanOfSwing Apr 27th 2012 2:59 pm

Re: "work to live" vs "live to work"
 

Originally Posted by ChocolateBabz (Post 10028653)
But if you didn't have to work you wouldn't spend that time doing the same thing every day, you would be free to pursue whatever you wanted to.

I am sure there are some people who are genuinely happy to go to work every day and love what they do, I just haven't ever met a single one!

Even doing what you love can take its toll though. As much as I'd love to be a professional musician, I had a six-gig weekend back in March that was right in the middle of quite a bad cold. Three late nights in a row plus I could barely speak on the Sunday afternoon.

It was fun and I made a decent haul, but it was a bit of a taste of the reality of what 'doing what I love' as a living might be like.

scrubbedexpat097 Apr 27th 2012 3:06 pm

Re: "work to live" vs "live to work"
 

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 10028658)
Even doing what you love can take its toll though. As much as I'd love to be a professional musician, I had a six-gig weekend back in March that was right in the middle of quite a bad cold. Three late nights in a row plus I could barely speak on the Sunday afternoon.

It was fun and I made a decent haul, but it was a bit of a taste of the reality of what 'doing what I love' as a living might be like.

Yes but if you were a professional musician you wouldn't have the pressure and stress of the day job as well would you..

SultanOfSwing Apr 27th 2012 3:08 pm

Re: "work to live" vs "live to work"
 

Originally Posted by Sugarmooma (Post 10028667)
Yes but if you were a professional musician you wouldn't have the pressure and stress of the day job as well would you..

It would greatly depend on what I was actually doing. As a teacher, or a session/stand in player, I'd not have much stress. As a songwriter I'd have deadlines and the fact that I'm really not very good at writing songs bearing down on me :D

Uncle Ebenezer Apr 27th 2012 3:09 pm

Re: "work to live" vs "live to work"
 

Originally Posted by Sugarmooma (Post 10028667)
Yes but if you were a professional musician you wouldn't have the pressure and stress of the day job as well would you..

Professional Drama Queen. :nod:


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