Where to buy wood burner (Central Portugal)
#16
Re: Where to buy wood burner (Central Portugal)
There are differing views on the thermal mass question; a lot depends on the architectural details, and on the usage of the space.
I like my place quite cold at night for instance... that would be difficult with a thermal mass wall.
If those stone walls are sitting on wet ground, a lot of heat will simply bleed away, as you can't insulate under them [without tearing the house down]. there will be condensation problems and mold in the corners. If on dry ground it will probably be ok.
Wood burners are difficult to regulate, producing a lot of heat in a short time. If it's very cold outside, that's usually welcome, but if you just want to warm up your house by a few degrees to dry it out, it can be difficult. The big buffer is welcome in that scenario.
Insulation and a new interior wall will take at least 6cm, and if you calculate the loss of floor space you might be surprised at how much you lose. It's a lot of work, changing all your electrics and so on, and there are always tricky details to work through. But when your done you have a nice new interior. there's still a problem at the lower corners, where the floor will be wicking heat away to the walls. The problem isn't so much the energy loss, but the dampness that can cause.
If you insulate on the inside, the house will heat up or cool down rapidly, but require less energy. If you insulate on the outside, it will take time to heat it or cool it, and it will tend to hold temperature for a while.
I'm considering a gasifying wood burning furnace in an outbuilding, and a big watertank heat buffer [and solar collectors].
The gasifying wood burners are more efficient, but what interests me is that the high internal temperature allows the burning of pine without soot buildup, and there's practically no smoke. I have a lot of pine.
Solzaima sells them but are very expensive.
There are also small gasifying burners to put in your living space just like traditional wood burners.
I like my place quite cold at night for instance... that would be difficult with a thermal mass wall.
If those stone walls are sitting on wet ground, a lot of heat will simply bleed away, as you can't insulate under them [without tearing the house down]. there will be condensation problems and mold in the corners. If on dry ground it will probably be ok.
Wood burners are difficult to regulate, producing a lot of heat in a short time. If it's very cold outside, that's usually welcome, but if you just want to warm up your house by a few degrees to dry it out, it can be difficult. The big buffer is welcome in that scenario.
Insulation and a new interior wall will take at least 6cm, and if you calculate the loss of floor space you might be surprised at how much you lose. It's a lot of work, changing all your electrics and so on, and there are always tricky details to work through. But when your done you have a nice new interior. there's still a problem at the lower corners, where the floor will be wicking heat away to the walls. The problem isn't so much the energy loss, but the dampness that can cause.
If you insulate on the inside, the house will heat up or cool down rapidly, but require less energy. If you insulate on the outside, it will take time to heat it or cool it, and it will tend to hold temperature for a while.
I'm considering a gasifying wood burning furnace in an outbuilding, and a big watertank heat buffer [and solar collectors].
The gasifying wood burners are more efficient, but what interests me is that the high internal temperature allows the burning of pine without soot buildup, and there's practically no smoke. I have a lot of pine.
Solzaima sells them but are very expensive.
There are also small gasifying burners to put in your living space just like traditional wood burners.
#17
Re: Where to buy wood burner (Central Portugal)
Hi Ashley
I know you know my house because we are friends and you have been to my house and know about how i insulated it room by room. Since i moved into my house i have had NO condensation after 6 years.
First of i did the kitchen by putting battens up that where 3,5cm thick and then insulated plaster board that had 3cm of insulation so that made a total of 7,5cm. I did this on all four walls and the ceiling had the Blue insulation and then insulated plaster board.
I have since done my lounge, spare bedroom and made a bedroom in the loft all with the same method. I have just opened up my lounge into another spare bedroom but i couldn't get 3cm insulated board in time so i have used 2cm insulated plaster board.
As the ceiling where high enough i put up a new ceiling 10cm lower ceiling so i could insulate and keep the heat in the lounge. Each ceiling i have put up was done the same way.
All wiring for sockets is done from below so at no point in the future the walls can't be drilled for any reason and hit wires. Also as the battens and plaster board are away from the walls there is a gap so the socket box needs attention and as the pictures below show put a block of wood on the wall behind and the socket box won't be able to be pulled out. Also leave a gap from the floor of about 3cm to allow for all the wiring to be run around.
After starting this six years ago i have found that ceiling fans do a good job of moving air around and at night i leave bedroom doors open and it works. I have no door to the stairs for the loft room and it's always warm.
The pictures show the window where the batten and insulation can be seen and the other is the wall socket and gap at floor level.
So Ashley that's how i have done it but you already know that speak soon.
Peter
I know you know my house because we are friends and you have been to my house and know about how i insulated it room by room. Since i moved into my house i have had NO condensation after 6 years.
First of i did the kitchen by putting battens up that where 3,5cm thick and then insulated plaster board that had 3cm of insulation so that made a total of 7,5cm. I did this on all four walls and the ceiling had the Blue insulation and then insulated plaster board.
I have since done my lounge, spare bedroom and made a bedroom in the loft all with the same method. I have just opened up my lounge into another spare bedroom but i couldn't get 3cm insulated board in time so i have used 2cm insulated plaster board.
As the ceiling where high enough i put up a new ceiling 10cm lower ceiling so i could insulate and keep the heat in the lounge. Each ceiling i have put up was done the same way.
All wiring for sockets is done from below so at no point in the future the walls can't be drilled for any reason and hit wires. Also as the battens and plaster board are away from the walls there is a gap so the socket box needs attention and as the pictures below show put a block of wood on the wall behind and the socket box won't be able to be pulled out. Also leave a gap from the floor of about 3cm to allow for all the wiring to be run around.
After starting this six years ago i have found that ceiling fans do a good job of moving air around and at night i leave bedroom doors open and it works. I have no door to the stairs for the loft room and it's always warm.
The pictures show the window where the batten and insulation can be seen and the other is the wall socket and gap at floor level.
So Ashley that's how i have done it but you already know that speak soon.
Peter
Last edited by peterfc; Jul 20th 2017 at 10:39 am.
#18
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2017
Location: Algarve
Posts: 569
Re: Where to buy wood burner (Central Portugal)
We plan to buy a house in the Algarve for the winterperiod. Most houses don't have heating. We don't like reversable aircos! Good for the summer but not for the winter.
We plan to have a woodstove or pelletstove combined with radiators in the whole house. We will choose a woodstove if the house has a place to stock the wood; otherwise it will be a pelletstove/hydro.
I don't want to live in a house with humidity and low temperatures. It will be an investment (maybe EUR 10,000), but very usefull.
We used 1 winter mobile gas-heaters, but a lot of humidity is the result.
So it will definately be a back-boiler system.
We plan to have a woodstove or pelletstove combined with radiators in the whole house. We will choose a woodstove if the house has a place to stock the wood; otherwise it will be a pelletstove/hydro.
I don't want to live in a house with humidity and low temperatures. It will be an investment (maybe EUR 10,000), but very usefull.
We used 1 winter mobile gas-heaters, but a lot of humidity is the result.
So it will definately be a back-boiler system.
#19
Banned
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
Re: Where to buy wood burner (Central Portugal)
We plan to buy a house in the Algarve for the winterperiod. Most houses don't have heating. We don't like reversable aircos! Good for the summer but not for the winter.
We plan to have a woodstove or pelletstove combined with radiators in the whole house. We will choose a woodstove if the house has a place to stock the wood; otherwise it will be a pelletstove/hydro.
I don't want to live in a house with humidity and low temperatures. It will be an investment (maybe EUR 10,000), but very usefull.
We used 1 winter mobile gas-heaters, but a lot of humidity is the result.
So it will definately be a back-boiler system.
We plan to have a woodstove or pelletstove combined with radiators in the whole house. We will choose a woodstove if the house has a place to stock the wood; otherwise it will be a pelletstove/hydro.
I don't want to live in a house with humidity and low temperatures. It will be an investment (maybe EUR 10,000), but very usefull.
We used 1 winter mobile gas-heaters, but a lot of humidity is the result.
So it will definately be a back-boiler system.
All we have in a 3bd 2 storey villa is a traditional wood burning fire.
We have underfloor heating but it gets warm enough for us without it.
#20
Re: Where to buy wood burner (Central Portugal)
Some very interesting comments so far and thanks to all. The more I think about the whole problem, the bigger it gets.