bugle33

Hi all,

Was hoping for a bit of help.

In 2016 we visited Portugal and with a view to buying a house got our fiscal numbers (registered to our uk address).

Later on in 2016 we bought a house and during that visit, went to the camera to complete the Registrations of Community Citizens form to our Portuguese address.

Question is, does the registration of community citizens automatically update your address with the Portuguese tax office?

Cheers everyone.

Mac and Mabel

If by Registration of community citizens you mean you registered becoming resident in Portugal then no, the Camara will not have updated Finança/AT, in our experience at least. But aside from being updated with your current address, Finanças would also have needed to be updated as to your change of residence status i.e. that in 2016 you became resident in PT (if I am correct and you are PT resident) and they would have required you to update them of change of residence status within 60 days of you registering with the Camara. So a fine might be due to you, unfortunately.

bugle33

Hi,

Many thanks for the reply. Sorry, I also meant to say throughout we have lived/worked solely in the UK and paid tax in the UK. We haven't let out the Portuguese house or anything or any earnings at all in Portugal.

We won't be moving to Portugal until this September. I just wanted to clarify our tax status won't have changed until we move over in September and of course then update Financas.

Thanks

RichardHenshall

So why did you register as resident in Portugal?

bugle33

To be honest we were a little green about the situation, we'd literally gone over for a couple of days, bought the house and our solicitor took us straight to the Camera to register. We understood it was just something we had to do but could still be tax resident in the UK.

RichardHenshall

As an EU citizen you are required to register residency with your Câmara once you've been resident for 3 months and to have done this before the end of the 4th month.

I am not aware of a process for unregistering residency with the Câmara (only) if you later leave the country as usually it's the taxman you need to worry about. It is quite possible to be in Portugal for a 5 month visit which requires you to register residency but does not necessarily mean that you became tax resident at all.

What address are your IMI bills sent to? It will be the address that the taxman considers to be your fiscal address.

bugle33

Thanks RH.

IMI is all done online, I thought you could have a property, pay IMI etc but still not be tax resident in Portugal?

RichardHenshall

You may do it online but the invoice will still show an address - your fiscal address as known by AT (though it could be the address of your Riscal Rep, if you've appointed one). You can also see it at https://www.portaldasfinancas.gov.pt...DadosGerais.do if you're able to access it.

RichardHenshall

Yes, you can own property without being tax-resident just as you can be tax-resident without owning property.

bugle33

Thanks Richard,

Glad you mentioned that site, that's where the confusion began. I went onto that site to register, when I put our UK address in, it said it was wrong, when I put the Portuguese address in, it worked. So, I'm a little confused as we've not raised a tax return on the strength of being registered to our UK address but don't know how they got the Portuguese address without us telling them.

Now you've mentioned they may have it from IMI do you think it's possible we are still tax resident in the UK but they have an address on file in Portugal? Surely they can't treat Portugal as our main residence unless we tell them it is?

Thanks for your help.

RichardHenshall

Somebody has told them you're resident in Portugal. When your Fiscal Numbers were obtained, what address was given? It seems to me that it's possible that your solicitor thought you were going to be resident and may well have registered you as such. Perhaps a useful first step would be to ask your solicitor to correct this mistake that he has made (and do it free of charge).

Your purchase will have been reported to AT on a Modelo 1 form, which includes a declaration of your country of domicílio fiscal. (Box 4 on the form).

If you had been hoping to make use of the Non Habitual Residency scheme you may be in trouble as it's for new residents only and if they think you became resident in 2016, it's too late to apply.

If you've tried to register on the Portal das Finanças, a time sensitive activation password will have been sent by mail to your registered address. See here.

bugle33

Hi.. When we got our fiscal numbers we registered as being in the UK, we haven't told them any different since as it's not changed.

Even when we bought the house with the solicitor in attendance, it was clear we were not going to live there, or be resident.

Already sent an e-mail to the solicitor and have just got an accountant over there so it should be sorted. I get the feeling the tax office in Portugal have two addresses on record but we are tax resident in the UK. Added to that is we've had no correspondence at all from the tax office to say anything is late.

RichardHenshall

They will only have one address for you - your Domicílio Fiscal.

Clearly AT know the address of any property or properties that you own as they collect IMI on them. However you can only have one Domicílio Fiscal (which is where you live and are tax-resident) and, for whatever reason, you are saying that they think you are resident at your own property in Portugal. Someone has told them that.

The fact that you accompanied your solicitor to your Câmara and registered your residency in his presence, even if you didn't realise that you shouldn't have done that, makes the propagation of the mistake pretty much inevitable.

bugle33

That's the thing though, we thought we were registering with the council on a council tax type register. In other words just to say we own the house. We even flown back that day and said to the solicitor see you in the future as we won't be back for a while! Hard to believe she would have done something to drop us in it, she spoke perfect English and knew what we wanted to do.

RichardHenshall

The rates of IMT (a bit like the UK's SDLT) are slightly lower for purchases of property for primary residence, with second homes being penalised, so she might have thought she was doing you a little favour. You might need to factor that in as well, if you're trying to reverse this mistake to make you eligible for the NHR scheme.