masterbaits

Its black and white , car cannot exit the country of registration for over 183 days in a year or is classed for export , non national car cannot stay in a country for more than 183 days in a year or must be imported...its really not that hard to fathom the whole eu agrees.It is within the the eu directive for free movement , as is checking for compliance to localised law.

http://www.capitaltaxconsulting.com/...-car-overseas/

1.A uk car thats out of the uk for more than 183 days in a year is liable to export.
2.An individual out of the uk for the same is an exile , therefore eu rules dont apply unless a tax resident in a eu country for over 183 days in a year.
3.Car must be legal in country of registration.
a.Mot or equiv.
b.Registration.
c.Road fund.
d.Insured-Company informed of exit and entrance , companies cannot insure a uk car for sole use abroad over 183 days in a year.Most only for short trips , and all only when authorised through instruction.
e.Roadworthy

masterbaits

http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthc...ingabroad.aspx

Like most things not simple , ehic short term only for those nhs uk regged , S1 and S2 qualifications are different ie age and benefit related.

cheshiregirl

HI Masterbaits thanks for all that information and links we will look over them most things in life are never easy but we will get there in the end. Thanks Cheshiregirl

Fredbargate

The link you have provided is to a private company who may have a vested interest. Can you provide a link to a Government site with similar information.

Items C & D are incorrect

masterbaits

Items c and d are correct.

If your car is not legal for the road in country of registration as a mode of personal transport , then its not legal on EU roads just the same.This includes road fund , roadworthiness and insurance.

Valid insurance , nearly all uk ins companies require registering your exit and entry dates as a condition of Eu cover , if they even give it at all as the cover may ONLY be for the UK roads....unlike the old days where you needed a cert from your ins company to be in your car at all times abroad and dated.

Some even have exceptions to eu cover in the conditions , or needing additional premiums just for 2 weeks "holiday" and rarely over 2 months in a given year.45 days seems the consensus for maximum use abraod now for a UK reg car on UK insurance.

Although you can get specialist EU cover , in the case of motorhomes , you cannot again be outwith the country of cover for more than 183 days as a person at which point your in personal exclusion conditions...ie not normally resident.

The question from insurance agent "Are you normally resident in the uk" for cover is being asked more and more , as is the following , "where is the car normally kept overnight" means the uk , "Holder of a current UK driving licence".Once your past the 6 month mark its not normally in the uk now is it?

Some of them only supply 3rd party cover when driving in the EU , the legal minimum.Which in the case of an accident can render your car worthless and you still have to keep paying the loan on it.

Sure there is even on here companies that will take your insurance money , insuring a car that legally shouldnt be abroad anyway based on UK , EU and PT law , but its worthless in the event of an accident or on checking by police.Which could rise to criminal charges , compensation payouts in the hundreds of thousands and legal fees etc.

Take that from me when I asked an expat with an insurance company in PT about insuring one of ours....he said he would love to take our money , but was actually an honest salesman and said it would be worthless , we would have been paying 500 euros for a piece of paper that wasnt valid.Guess who got our home and contents cover , even though it was slightly more expensive than ther rest?

99.9 percent of expat cars are illegal on the insurance front , the operative word being expats , and the drivers well know it.

If your an expat with a car thats went over the 183 day rule then the car ie illegaly being driven on those roads.If you as a person are there over 183 days and not changed residency or swapped licence to a local one so are you.Insurance void.

Named driver on uk insurance means normally UK resident , so thinking that keeping a uk car in someone elses name thats resident in the uk and the car in pt wont work.Again insurance void.

A company with a vested interest , of course it is , if there was no need to do it there would be no interest.Uk cars kept out of the uk for more than 183 days by eu directive have to be imported or returned before reaching the due date.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/motoring...cle/dg_4022582

Saga are the only ones I can find that will cover up to 1 year "TOURING" only on uk plates , caravan and motorhome only though , operative word here being touring , so parking at your villa wont work as per 183 day rule will still over ride this.

masterbaits

Re insurance , ibex insure seems to be a popular insurance company that knows the rules , even though it admits the law in its FAQ it does not do so clearly enough and is most likely knowingly advising flouting them.

It is vague on the explanation of the amount of time a foreign registered vehicle can remain in the country , it mentions only the amount of time it thinks can be on the road in a year in this case Spain , which is wrong because its the total time in a country physically not just being driven.See previous post above re dvla - particularly defination of temporary use abroad and export.

As I mentioned anyone living in a country , or thier car for over 183 days in a given year , they must apply for residence and all that it curtails with it by law , ie that changing licence , matriculation of uk vehicle and so on.Ibex insure hints of this , but does it acknowledge the dvla rules or indeed legality of residency are indeed required by law and not merely an option.

It really isnt up to them to tell you what must be done about YOUR residency requirements and the law , but in this case it could be easilly argued that they are deliberately misleading the prospective client , that they simply dont need to apply for residency , when in reality they have to.If they are wrong about this then it would be safe to presume other wrongs?

There is many thousands of what the uk press would call illegal imigrants , if it was the other way about , all driving uk plated cars in spain and portugal ilegally.A valuable market , vested interest , its reasoning alone not to tell you the facts before taking your money?

In another part of the faq it is mentioned that they dont need a mot or ipv to insure , just vagueness on an agreement of roadworthiness , wtf , thats reasoning for the underwriters loss adjuster to deny any insurance claim.

You cannot tax a car in the uk without an mot unless its less than 3 years old - Again if its not legal in country of registration to be on the roads then its illegal to be driven in the EU , its part of the agreement on entry and use.

Anyone that wants to take such a risk just needs to do a search on the forum and see how many posters have had to return a car or matriculate because of the 183 day rule.Just how many were insured with ibex or indeed other companies and the insurance void?

Copied from ibex motor insurance FAQ

If I live in Spain can I drive a UK registered vehicle legally?

Yes providing you have not applied for, and received, "Residencia", you can bring your UK registered vehicle with you when you come to Spain but by law you can only use it for six months in any calendar year in Spain. Ibex can however continue to insure it for as long as you keep it in Spain.
Any Non-resident who changes to resident status after six months must either import the car into Spain, which can be expensive and complicated, and re-register onto Spanish plates, or sell it and buy a Spanish registered vehicle.

tombo

Perhaps Gedscottish can comment.

A recent visit to the Zurich office here with reference to insuring a RHD UK vehicle with portuguese insurance.

The sales person told us the law had been changed recently.

Now they would only insure a UK reg vehicle for 4 months maximum and if you took it back to the UK they would only cover you for 1 month.

Road tax and MOT's were never mentioned althouth they said that the vehicle had to be roadworthy.

Anyone heard of this? laws change here by the week so anything is possible.

Fredbargate

The above is incorrect, from the Gov link you supplied for UK registered vehicles.

When a vehicle registered in the United Kingdom (UK) is taken out of the country for 12 months or more, it’s regarded as being permanently exported from the UK.

Also you have made a statement that does not apply to all countries of registration.

C) Not all countries have Road Fund, Spain being an example

D) You have posted a quote from Ibex, if you are not sure about it ask them.

You appear to have a fixation of stating COUNTRY OF REGISTRATION and then backing it up with what you believe is relevant to UK vehicles.

gedscottish

We have never worked with Zurich but I am surprised they(zurich) never stated that they would only insure a Uk/foreign plated car if it was already in the process of marticulation. With the insurance company we currently work with and previous companies we have worked with, they will only insure the vehicle with proof that it is being legalised here in Portugal.

As for masterbaits comments about Ibex, I have been on this subject before and would prefer not to get into it again. Portugal forum user "Mike" sells Ibex insurance so perhaps he would be best to comment on it?!

masterbaits

You have omitted the gov site mentioning under twelve months but over six
(183 dyas) , it is not up to the dvla to tell a driver of local laws , it is responsible for uk only law and uk registered vehicles on its (uk)roads and what should be exported and when.

It is also not up to the dvla to tell you that you will have your car impounded for going over this 183 day rule in a foreign country , in particular the eu.

The onus is on the owner to comply with the dvla for uk conditions of registration and for driving on uk roads for uk plated cars , ignorance of the law is no excuse , just the same due dilegance applied when they are driving on foreign roads with complying with local law.The eu driving is a "limited" shared member benefit , but with this right comes conditions , penalites and responsibilities.

The question was ORIGINALLY asked about a uk car on pt roads , i gave an answer , and it is the correct answer not only for the op topic of PT but the EU as a whole , whether you like it or not the facts are spot on.

Obviously your a proponent of dodging the responsibiliity of driving a UK car in a foreign and now expat community (uk and EU law and its application), or you have a vested interest(seeing as how you brought vested interest up in my car exports link ln reply to your question earlier).Sell bent insurance or mot do you?

WE can go even deeper , as I seem to remember in pt law its illegal to drive a foreign registered car if your a pt resident .But as we all know pt law is like the wind and forever changing and likes to ignore eu directives anyway.

I dont need to ask ibex , the answer is in the faq on their site , and is deliberately vague at the very least and perhaps more deviously aiding or recommending not complying with the law on three matters ,

a) the 183 day rule for a persons residency only being optional.
b)cars and the limited time it may be "kept in the country" before NEEDING to matriculate -not as stated just driven time on the roads
c)uk plated cars driven without uk mot , which is a legal requirement for driving on uk laws.

I HAVE repeated yes , but your the one with a fixation , and again incorrect(if spain has no road fund as you state road tax then what is suma?) ....but a quick google mentions spanish road fund aka road tax.

Spain and road tax http://www.costablancauncovered.com/...tax-Spain.html

There is also thousands of illegal uk cars driving in spain while on uk sorn , again without uk mot , fooled into thinking ipv with sorn and dubious insurance is a legal option as a loophole when it is not.Bent companies are benefitting from it at the expense of the expat.

In short Uk registration cannot superceed local laws , if your driving on foreign roads its up to you to comply with their laws, and you will suffer the consequence should you flout them.I cannot get any more clear cut , and your only making getting the message across delibrately confusing it for others.

Fredbargate

Sorry I can find no mention of this other than a UK registered car must be road legal at all times i.e. Taxed and MOT.

Possibly because the dvla has no juristriction in other countries.

Fairly obvious


No they are not
France, the vignette was abolished for private vehicles in 2001
Gibraltar no Road Tax
Spain the vehicle tax is more of a wealth tax unlike the UK it is paid wether the vehicle has or has not an MOT or insurance.

Wrong

If you consider it deliberately vague then ask for clarification before condeming

Then why did you not answer UK registered instead of country of registration?

Very true

If you do not want others to be confused make sure you are refering to UK and not the whole world

masterbaits

fred highlight away , i know what the question was , and my answers are correct.UK CAR , PT USE regardless everything i have mentioned is law.

Including where appropriate any country that allows an eu car on eu roads and the law being that it has to be legal in the country of registration as a condition for doing so in another participatiing country.

You were wrong on everything , tax , insurance , mot etc and were needed to be shown . or at least your potential customers should be because i uspect thats your job or company.It really wouldnt surprise me if you would also advise sorn too.

I refuse to be an arse in any further replies on this topic from you , other than to say your off your meds , an insurance salesman that either now or always has had no plausible deniability , therefore is commiting a crime , perpetuating a crime , and aiding others to do so in punting unusable insurance and enforcing the flouting of the law....it will from now on be my only reply to your posts with comments to mine.

MikeJ

You may or may not be right in your assertions rant but is there any need to be so obnoxious and rude?

cheshiregirl

Hi everyone above thanks for all the advice good or bad sorry to have caused a right old barny. This is what we will do, drive our range rover sport over to Luz stay six months then come back to the uk for a couple of weeks then drive our other car over to Portugal for the other six months it will be insursured with our UK company just paying the extra to drive in PT it does not require a mot as not old enough hopefully this will keep us legal and within PT laws. I hope!!!!!!! Kind Regards to all, Cheshiregirl.

masterbaits

Sorry mike rude for what , obnoxious for what?For being right , for proving the guy wrong everytime?

IF this guy has sold you insurance and its invalid would you want to know it or have a car impounded to find it out.Its fraud ffs.

I answered the op question , was challenged on it by him , replied with proof not that I am right but what is legal and isnt legal.

If you mean by saying hes off his meds , then that could be construed as rude....but far less than i would have said normally , which would cause the most offence not to him but to the users whom may not like to read expletives,