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Old Sep 5th 2017, 1:55 pm   #16
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Default Re: Stupidity killed 2 people

And so it still goes' on,the pilot's comment just about sum's his attitude up, but then again, his full name is Carlos Count of Almeida, royalty no less


Cessna pilot is 'not sorry that he landed on the beach' despite two deaths
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 2:13 pm   #17
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Default Re: Stupidity killed 2 people

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And so it still goes' on,the pilot's comment just about sum's his attitude up, but then again, his full name is Carlos Count of Almeida, royalty no less. ....
"I was just following the rules" is rarely, if ever, an effective defense in a homicide trial. At very least a little more remorse ahead of a trial, would be a good strategy.
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 2:23 pm   #18
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"I was just following the rules" is rarely, if ever, an effective defense in a homicide trial. At very least a little more remorse ahead of a trial, would be a good strategy.
Hi. Did you read the comment by Roy Carpenter ,he been a instructor since 1976
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 2:30 pm   #19
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Default Re: Stupidity killed 2 people

I don't see anything has changed since I made the comment copied below & if Mr Carpenter does have the experience he claims he should know better than to try to second guess an air accident investigation.

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If the comment you refer to is; "As a flying instructor with 35 years experience I always stressed to my pupils that, in the event of a forced landing, the first priority was to minimise ground casualties, the second was to minimise crew casualties and saving the aircraft was the last thing to consider.
Looking at the state of the aircraft here makes me wonder whether this instructor got his priorities wrong !!"

The guy is right about priorities but I don't think his comment proves anything & as I said, it's never a good idea to try to second guess the air accident investigators.

It could well be that the pilot instructor tried to choose the least packed area to land or that he had no choice about where to land & as for the part of his comment of "Looking at the state of the aircraft here makes me wonder whether this instructor got his priorities wrong !!"

The only obvious damage I can see to the aircraft is the collapsed wing & strut & that will have been caused by the heavy landing and won't have happened in flight so I don't really understand quite what he meant by that remark.

Firstly the wing & strut is designed to give additional strength & stability with regard to lift rather than the opposite force & if it had collapsed during flight that aircraft would have fallen from the sky like a sack of spuds......... And going from memory, the video showed both wings intact at the moment of landing.

The air accident report will make interesting reading but even then it might not be possible to properly decide fault unless there's a lot more film than has been shown on the media because there's probably no record of who was on the beach & where exactly they were in relation to where the aircraft came down.
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 2:35 pm   #20
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Default Re: Stupidity killed 2 people

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Originally Posted by Ingles View Post
Hi. Did you read the comment by Roy Carpenter ,he been a instructor since 1976
Yes, seems appropriate.
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I don't see anything has changed since I made the comment copied below & if Mr Carpenter does have the experience he claims he should know better than to try to second guess an air accident investigation.
Except that this new comment is in the context of the pilot admitting, by implication, that he did have control of the plane and made a choice to land on the beach rather than ditching in the sea.
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 2:43 pm   #21
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Default Re: Stupidity killed 2 people

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Yes, seems appropriate.

Except that this new comment is in the context of the pilot admitting, by implication, that he did have control of the plane and made a choice to land on the beach rather than ditching in the sea.
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 3:12 pm   #22
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Default Re: Stupidity killed 2 people

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Yes, seems appropriate.

Except that this new comment is in the context of the pilot admitting, by implication, that he did have control of the plane and made a choice to land on the beach rather than ditching in the sea.
Trust me when I say he might have had some control but he won't have had anything like full control & the weight of that engine plus two adult men plus low altitude & a hot day would have meant that as soon as he lost power, that aircraft would have the handling characteristics of a house brick & no matter how good the pilot is, he or she can never defeat the rules of physics.

There are endless possibilities but as I keep saying, it's never a good idea to try to outguess an air accident investigation.

I don't know if the investigation has been completed or if it has or will be made public but I'd be interested to read it's conclusions.
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 3:21 pm   #23
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Default Re: Stupidity killed 2 people

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Trust me when I say he might have had some control but he won't have had anything like full control & the weight of that engine plus two adult men plus low altitude & a hot day would have meant that as soon as he lost power, that aircraft would have the handling characteristics of a house brick & no matter how good the pilot is, he or she can never defeat the rules of physics.

There are endless possibilities but as I keep saying, it's never a good idea to try to outguess an air accident investigation. ....
But now you are "outguessing" everyone, including the pilot, by giving the pilot a bunch of excuses that even the pilot doesn't seem to have tried to make. And isn't that even worse than mere "second guessing"?
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 3:35 pm   #24
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But now you are "outguessing" everyone, including the pilot, by giving the pilot a bunch of excuses that even the pilot doesn't seem to have tried to make.
No. I'm not trying to outguess anyone.

My point is that there are endless possible scenarios that could have happened & it's never a good thing to speculate or hurl accusations until one knows the facts & that will only happen once the report is published at best.

I'm also pointing out that a lot of what has been suggested would simply not have been possible in that aircraft with a failed engine.

To a very large extent once the engine fails you lose your choices & simply have to let the rules of physics take over.

One suggestion (for example) made was why didn't he just hop over the people?

I've been in a similar situation (but with a working engine) on 3 separate occasions that I can remember (when animals crossed the airstrip as we were about to touch down) and it's hard enough to do that when you have a good, working engine and good flight speed..... but without those things it's impossible.

Don't forget this aircraft touched down because it had insufficient lift to maintain flight and once down, it would not have been able to increase speed to regain lift/flight. Even the steering on the ground relies on airflow over the tail & without an engine, that also would have been severely impaired. - Simple physics.

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Old Sep 5th 2017, 3:37 pm   #25
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Default Re: Stupidity killed 2 people

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No. My point is that there are endless possible scenarios that could have happened & it's never a good thing to speculate ....
Which is exactly what you just did in post #22!
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 3:39 pm   #26
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Default Re: Stupidity killed 2 people

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Originally Posted by mfesharne View Post
Trust me when I say he might have had some control but he won't have had anything like full control & the weight of that engine plus two adult men plus low altitude & a hot day would have meant that as soon as he lost power, that aircraft would have the handling characteristics of a house brick & no matter how good the pilot is, he or she can never defeat the rules of physics.

There are endless possibilities but as I keep saying, it's never a good idea to try to outguess an air accident investigation.

I don't know if the investigation has been completed or if it has or will be made public but I'd be interested to read it's conclusions.
There's one conclusion already made , the Pilot openly admitted that
"he's not sorry he landed on the beach"

Not a word about the 2 people who where killed because he did so !!

No remorse at all & no public statement expressing his condolences to the families off the young Girl & Father, that he was sorry for there deaths !

Basically his attitude appears to be " -hit happens " live with it !
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 3:54 pm   #27
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Default Re: Stupidity killed 2 people

And of course, as we all know the media always report the truth, the whole truth & nothing but the truth hey?

That of course doesn't even address the possibility of something being lost in translation.
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 4:02 pm   #28
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And of course, as we all know the media always report the truth, the whole truth & nothing but the truth hey?

That of course doesn't even address the possibility of something being lost in translation.
Please explain "media" & please tick which is appropriate.
Local
TV
Press
------
Foreign
TV
Press
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 4:08 pm   #29
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Default Re: Stupidity killed 2 people

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And so it still goes' on,the pilot's comment just about sum's his attitude up, but then again, his full name is Carlos Count of Almeida, royalty no less


Cessna pilot is 'not sorry that he landed on the beach' despite two deaths
It's the Algarve Daily news, not known for the high level of its journalistic comment.

Has any fluent Portuguese reader actually seen the interview with the pilot,?
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 4:08 pm   #30
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Default Re: Stupidity killed 2 people

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/media

I might (possibly) believe the date the media claim it to be but I don't often believe much else because their aim is to make money not to tell the truth, the whole truth & nothing but the truth.
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