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Old Aug 3rd 2017, 10:48 am   #1
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Default Stupidity killed 2 people

Yesterday a light plane made a "emergency" landing on the beach @ Praia da Caparica & in doing so killed a 8 year old girl & 56 year old man

Any body who knows this beach will be aware off the fact that the depth off the water a 100 meters from the edged is only a meter or so at low tide & this was when the "accident" took place !!!

But the Pilot choose the land on the beach which was completely packed !
As off this mornings press it's reported that the Pilot could/may be charged with the PT equivalent off "man slaughter"

Capas - Correio da Manhã
Please note :- this link is only operational for today !

In EN
https://www.theguardian.com/world/vi...se-beach-video
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Old Aug 3rd 2017, 5:24 pm   #2
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Default Re: Stupidity killed 2 people

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingles View Post
Yesterday a light plane made a "emergency" landing on the beach @ Praia da Caparica & in doing so killed a 8 year old girl & 56 year old man

Any body who knows this beach will be aware off the fact that the depth off the water a 100 meters from the edged is only a meter or so at low tide & this was when the "accident" took place !!!

But the Pilot choose the land on the beach which was completely packed !
As off this mornings press it's reported that the Pilot could/may be charged with the PT equivalent off "man slaughter"

Capas - Correio da Manhã
Please note :- this link is only operational for today !

In EN
https://www.theguardian.com/world/vi...se-beach-video
Tragic. But I thought it was an emergency landing with a beginner flying the plane? Don't know the full facts yet,but i doubt a genuine pilot would choose to land in unknown territory unless forced too.
Pilots used to land light planes on Southport beach.When I was a child.they would take you up for joy rides around the town and across the sea to Blackpool tower. i know the landing strip had to be hard packed sand and they were paranoid about it being so
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Old Aug 3rd 2017, 5:35 pm   #3
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Default Re: Stupidity killed 2 people

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Originally Posted by Ingles View Post
Yesterday a light plane made a "emergency" landing on the beach @ Praia da Caparica & in doing so killed a 8 year old girl & 56 year old man

Any body who knows this beach will be aware off the fact that the depth off the water a 100 meters from the edged is only a meter or so at low tide & this was when the "accident" took place !!!

But the Pilot choose the land on the beach which was completely packed! .....
My thoughts exactly - come in low, stall it, and ditch it in the sea a few feet from shore, rather than try to land on a crowded beach.
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Old Aug 3rd 2017, 5:49 pm   #4
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Default Re: Stupidity killed 2 people

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Originally Posted by GeniB View Post
Tragic. But I thought it was an emergency landing with a beginner flying the plane? Don't know the full facts yet,but i doubt a genuine pilot would choose to land in unknown territory unless forced too.
Pilots used to land light planes on Southport beach.When I was a child.they would take you up for joy rides around the town and across the sea to Blackpool tower. i know the landing strip had to be hard packed sand and they were paranoid about it being so
The Pilot in control @ the time off the "accident" was a Qualified Pilot Trainer !
i.e. Extremely Qualified with 100's off hours under his belt.

I'm not being sarcastic , but NO qualified Pilot would ever allow a untrained
Pilot to try to land a plane in a emergency situation.
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Old Aug 3rd 2017, 5:54 pm   #5
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Default Re: Stupidity killed 2 people

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Originally Posted by Ingles View Post
The Pilot in control @ the time off the "accident" was a Qualified Pilot Trainer !
i.e. Extremely Qualified with 100's off hours under his belt.

I'm not being sarcastic , but NO qualified Pilot would ever allow a untrained Pilot to try to land a plane in a emergency situation.
So the logical conclusion is that a "Qualified Pilot Trainer .... with 100's off hours under his belt." decided to land a damaged plane on a crowded beach. WTF!
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Old Aug 3rd 2017, 6:07 pm   #6
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Default Re: Stupidity killed 2 people

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Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
So the logical conclusion is that a "Qualified Pilot Trainer .... with 100's off hours under his belt." decided to land a damaged plane on a crowded beach. WTF!
Everyone is an exspurt.
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Old Aug 3rd 2017, 11:08 pm   #7
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Default Re: Stupidity killed 2 people

Maybe wise to withhold judgement until all facts are known? For example, perhaps there was a steering problem.
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Old Aug 4th 2017, 2:03 am   #8
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Default Re: Stupidity killed 2 people

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Maybe wise to withhold judgement until all facts are known? For example, perhaps there was a steering problem.
It's possible but seems improbable that a plane unable to steer would just happen to land on a level beach that, were it not crowded with people, would make a decent landing strip.
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Old Aug 4th 2017, 6:17 am   #9
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Default Re: Stupidity killed 2 people

I quit flying about 8 years ago but do have some experience with both fixed (single & twin engines) & rotary wing (single engine helicopter & gyrocopter) aircraft & the reports suggest it was more a case of simple physics than anything else.

If the reports are correct (and they probably more or less are) It was a student pilot at the controls with an instructor beside him & probably still climbing after take off when the engine failed at which point the instructor would have taken over.

That aircraft & the student's lack of qualification mean they must have been flying over land rather than open water & the Cessna 152 has the gliding ability of a house brick so therefore the deciding factors of where the aircraft came down would be decided by gravity & momentum & not much else. - He'll have had some control (mostly stability) but not much & very little directional control.

I'd assume the instructor would have taken control when the engine failed & it appears he tried to land on the wet sand beside the sea which would have been the hardest surface & that in itself was a good feat of flying.

Never a good idea to try to out guess the air accident investigators though.

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Old Aug 4th 2017, 6:38 am   #10
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Default Re: Stupidity killed 2 people

I'll add that as it was an engine failure the people on the beach wouldn't have heard the aircraft coming in & the flight crew (for want of a better term) would have no way of alerting them.

As I see it, the incident was dreadfully sad but simply an accident & if the beach was as packed as media reports suggest perhaps the instructor pilot tried to use what limited control he had to land on the least packed area.

Regarding the issue of why did he not try to ditch in the sea........ it could well be that he did try but equally it could be that he couldn't make it or that the sea had more people in it than were on the part of the beach that he tried to land on & that's without even considering the issues that a Cessna 152 is a fixed undercarriage aircraft & trying to ditch one in the sea wouldn't be a good idea & also that neither pilot might know the depth of the water (not that depth makes much if any difference)

As I said, it's never a good idea to try to out guess the air accident investigators.

As for suggestions of manslaughter charges I think that's unlikely to say the least........ If they haven't charged owners of illegally planted commercial woodland with that after the fires killed so many I can't see them charging a pilot who suffered engine failure with it.

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Old Aug 4th 2017, 8:00 am   #11
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Default Re: Stupidity killed 2 people

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Originally Posted by Diddion View Post
Maybe wise to withhold judgement until all facts are known? For example, perhaps there was a steering problem.
exactly my point ...
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Old Aug 4th 2017, 11:07 am   #12
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Default Re: Stupidity killed 2 people

According to this mornings Press reports , the Pilot is quoted as saying
"I thought off landing in the sea ,but as the Cessna has a fixed undercarriage we would more than likely flip over & we could drown"

He has been flying for 35 years .
Again in the press , it seems he/they are possible going to be charged with
Homicídio Negligência =+/- Manslaughter
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Old Aug 4th 2017, 11:24 am   #13
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Default Re: Stupidity killed 2 people

There's endless possible scenarios & just one is that he didn't have the altitude to make it those last few yards & another is there were more people in the sea at that point than there were on the beach & having just seen the video it appears he just made it over the heads of a largish group & tried to put it down on a part of the beach that had fewer people on it.........

As I said, never a good idea to try to out guess the air accident investigators.
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Old Aug 6th 2017, 9:21 am   #14
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Default Re: Stupidity killed 2 people

Please read last public comment by Roy Carpenter

Light aircraft lands on Almada beach, killing a man and an 8-year-old girl
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Old Aug 6th 2017, 3:31 pm   #15
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Default Re: Stupidity killed 2 people

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If the comment you refer to is; "As a flying instructor with 35 years experience I always stressed to my pupils that, in the event of a forced landing, the first priority was to minimise ground casualties, the second was to minimise crew casualties and saving the aircraft was the last thing to consider.
Looking at the state of the aircraft here makes me wonder whether this instructor got his priorities wrong !!"

The guy is right about priorities but I don't think his comment proves anything & as I said, it's never a good idea to try to second guess the air accident investigators.

It could well be that the pilot instructor tried to choose the least packed area to land or that he had no choice about where to land & as for the part of his comment of "Looking at the state of the aircraft here makes me wonder whether this instructor got his priorities wrong !!"

The only obvious damage I can see to the aircraft is the collapsed wing & strut & that will have been caused by the heavy landing and won't have happened in flight so I don't really understand quite what he meant by that remark.

Firstly the wing & strut is designed to give additional strength & stability with regard to lift rather than the opposite force & if it had collapsed during flight that aircraft would have fallen from the sky like a sack of spuds......... And going from memory, the video showed both wings intact at the moment of landing.

The air accident report will make interesting reading but even then it might not be possible to properly decide fault unless there's a lot more film than has been shown on the media because there's probably no record of who was on the beach & where exactly they were in relation to where the aircraft came down.

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