dimmaz88

Hi all, my girlfriend and I are planning to buy some land in Portugal and build a small house. We aim to be as self sufficient as possible, growing crops, collecting rainwater and using a well/spring. So we won't be connected to the main grid for anything.

My question is, what are the planning laws like for starting a camp site?

It would only be small, and I may build a couple of glamping pods.

We'd like to buy land in mid Portugal.

Any help appreciated.

macliam

This is going to sound very negative - but you need to prepare and check everything very well or you risk an expensive adventure.

Your first problem, as discussed in multiple posts here, will be your plan to "build a small house" on some land you buy. Planning rules are as tight here as in the UK and sometimes tighter - you cannot build unless the land is approved for building and you cannot build without having building plans approved. The fines for any transgression are very steep and you could also be ordered to demolish any unauthorised building. If you don't speak Portuguese, you are destined for many frustrating attempts and quite some expense to get plans approved.

Secondly, starting a business is not so straightforward either - again you will need to apply for licenses, etc. and register with the relevant authorities. Portugal is a land of paper - you'll need lots.

Thirdly, anything to do with lodging is likely to need approval and a license to rent out your property. There, you'll need to prove access to potable water, etc., etc. and it may be hard to meet the regulations with an "off-grid" site.

Of course, you can ignore all this and build an illegal campsite - but one call to the authorities by a disgruntled neighboiur, a rival or a dissatified customer and any investment may go to the wall.

Others here may have direct experience of your proposed scheme, but don't expect it to be easy.

dimmaz88

You are correct that is all very negative

Obviously I know I'll need planning permission for both the house and camp site, that was not the question.

I was hoping someone who'd had experience could shed some light on the situation.

I'd only buy land with either a derelict building on it, or that already had building permission. That will be the easiest way I'm sure.

Cheers

macliam

As you wish, but negative is realistic - I suggest you look back over previous posts regarding building and/or business plans. I'll let others advise you.

Also, be aware (as discussed here many times) that the rules in Portugal can vary according to location and time (and person) - so even something that worked for another expat may not be applicable to your situation. Any guidance can only be that, guidance - basically, nobody can do the work for you - you'll need to do your own research and progress accordingly.

Good luck.

mfesharne

I'll start by wishing you good luck but macliam has given you good & accurate advice.

Portugal, especially central & northern Portugal sees a regular flow of people with exactly the same idea you mention and whilst a few do succeed (usually those with previous experience in the field of business) the vast majority fail within a year or two at most. Which is why there's usually plenty of used yurts, tents & canoes etc for sale here.

On top of the challenges macliam mentioned you also need to consider that whilst summers are often very hot & dry, winters are often very cold & very wet which means few if any punters for something like half of every year.

All that said, if you do go ahead & choose carefully...... and run the operation professionally, you might make it & I wish you luck.

dimmaz88

Thank you

I don't mean to sound harsh or ungrateful, but Macliam didn't really give me any advice just told me what I already knew, that it'll be hard and I'll need permission, hence the reason for asking for advice.

If we all believed what we read on forums, we would stay indoors terrified of the world.

Obviously starting anything like this will be hard, especially starting a small business.

I really don't mean to sound ungrateful but in every thread I've read, it's full of negative information that only serves to put people off.

mfesharne

Another couple of points for you to consider is that when you mention buying "land with either a derelict building on it" etc you need to ensure both building & land have the right classification for what you plan to do & also that the tourist boards in the areas you mention are next to useless when it comes to marketing to the international market so don't expect much by way of useful advertising or support from them.

As a good example of that try looking online for the videos they often post....... The videos themselves are very good but the vast majority are in Portuguese which is obviously next to useless to the very people you need to target.

mfesharne

You raise a good point but in truth, the reason so much is negative is because it's extremely hard to make a success of such a venture here & people are simply giving the truth even though it probably isn't what you want to hear.

I've been in the central zone for 5 years & in that time, I've known at least 6 couples arrive with the same plan as you & not one has made a go of it.

Also one in my area committed suicide over a similar failure.

liveaboard

campground regulations are draconian.
among a long list of things, you need to have a person on duty 24 hours a day. I think you're required to have a licensed restaurant. You need a massive system of fire hydrants and hoses, and approval for the whole place by multiple agencies, including the local fire department.
It's the same regardless of whether you have 2 places or 200; that's why there are so few small campgrounds.

If you do buy a registered ruin, you still need full planning permission to rebuild it. Again, the procedure is quite rigid and normally it takes a year or three to get the paperwork done.
If you buy a habitable house [with habitation license] you can renovate with minimal fuss.

If you expect to earn a living in central Portugal; well, better have a backup plan. Living here is great, but the business climate is tough bordering on imposable.

dimmaz88

Thanks for the input guys, I'll take it all on board.

I honestly thought permission for a campsite in Portugal would be more simple than in France for example, what a shame.

It would only really be for passive income anyway, as most of our income would be from other means. It would just be a nice way of meeting new people of like mind.

I suppose we could offer wwoofing places to cover that aspect.

Suddenly France seems like a better option, especially with regards to self-building.

Knoxy_UK

There's a website called Emma's place in Portugal. It's doesn't seem to be updated anymore, but she describes getting permissions.

If you're buying near to Castelo Branco, then Remax estate agents will assist you. I bought through them in Aug last year, and they offered (at a fee) to help run building projects. Whilst I didn't need this, they still helped me get my fiscal number for my children, and spoke to EDP when I couldn't find an English speaker there.

But that's just my Pi & Onion

Paul

dimmaz88

Cheers Paul, I've come across her site actually.

How are you finding it out there?

peterfc

Hi All

Just to let you know Emma and Simon have moved to Australia where Emma was from.

Peter

Knoxy_UK

After all her adventures? Shame

barlaventoexpert

There has been a lot of changes in Portugal in the past 10 years, most arising from application of EU regs in the area of environmental protection and a desire to develop quality tourism.

Portugal's policies on the environment & tourism management are fast approaching those of Northern Europe & IMHO are way ahead of Spain, Italy & Greece.

One can no longer just start a business on the side and expect to get a way with it.

The Portuguese Ministry of Agriculture & Rural Development has a fairly detailed document (in Portuguese) which describes the process for starting and running a Capsite.

http://www.dgadr.mamaot.pt/microempr.../Ficha_TER.pdf

Item 2.1 refers to Campsites.