Midgo

Hi,

I'm looking for a good site to look at the different options and prices for Salamandras, any ideas, please?

I am Googling, but would also like to make use of any previous experience anyone might have

Also, pros and cons of wood vs pellets?

I am Lisbon based

Thanks

Leigh

mfesharne

I'm a big fan of pellets but before you buy anything you need to work out the size you need or have a professional do it for you & you/he/she needs to factor in things like insulation levels etc rather than just room volume.

MrBife

Salamander is just a brand name - as an option, take a look at this Portuguese manufacturer.

Ingles

Link NBG

MrBife

Will do it the low tech way then - Aquecimento a Pellets e Lenha Solzaima Nice Portuguese manufactured range of product that works well and is good value

Midgo

Thanks,

I never knew Salamandra was a brand name - thought it was just a Portuguese word.
A bit like our' Hoover' then?

I think we will go with a wood burner rather than Pellets.

Midgo

Pellet burners have now been selected

gedscottish

Link does not work. Salamander may be a brand name but "Salamandra" is a wood burner like these:

Leroy Merlin - Produtos

Midgo

Thanks,
Was going to check out Leroy Merlin for pellet burners
Also have some friends who have them (Teresa saw them and so the decision was made), will ask them where they got them

beccydan

Hey Midgo - what did you decide on in the end? What are the pro's and cons of either?

Midgo

Hi,

We have bought two 8 kW pellet burners for downstairs

We will try them out this winter to see if we need to install the inverter Aircon upstairs or not.

I suspect not as we will have interior roof installation, exterior capoto and all new double glazed doors and windows, and we have been (very) conservative in our kW choice

Actually, I was going to post here, since the advice online is misleading w.r.t. the 'exhaust'

One of the pro's quoted is that you dont have to have a proper chimney / flue and can just vent at a low level through the wall and this installation is cheaper / easier.

However, it appears that in fact the flue has to follow the same rules as any other fire - with minimum exit height above a sloping roof (to a distance of 1300 mm measured at 90 degrees to a sloping roof - obviously the flu is vertical) or apex (500 mm), and extra height if within 5m of upstairs windows (at height of top of window if further than 5m, 1000 mm higher if closer than 5m to the window). Taken from the installation instructions that came with it, as per the Italian standard UNI 10683, apparently - look from page 106 in the linked pdf. Its an Italian standard I think but I guess it must be ISO equivalent?

It looks to me that in terms of functionality, the internal fan does mean that a long flue is not required for proper operation BUT the regulations designed to stop us killing ourselves are the same as for other fires (even though there is potentially less smoke with a pellet burner)

I found this out when they arrived last week with the manuals stuck to the boxes, and have been meaning to update this thread for anyone else finding it

The manual says that if these standards arent followed the guarantee is void.

However, I'm still trying to find the equivalent PT standards

Anyone know any more on this?

Midgo

I talked to the guy in Leroy Merlin (I should have done this initially instead of relying on Internet info!) and he told me the regs for pellet burners are the same as for wood burners- chimney to above roof.

I checked my calcs using the UK standards which use a different calc method but come to the same result - in my specific situation where my chimneys will exit (i.e. may not be your result) the chimneys have to both extend past the roof by 1 m.

Also, pipe has to be insulated (sandwich double skin) if on outside wall going up - 70€ per m (to stop condensation inside tube)
T joint with cap at bottom for cleaning
Rain hat
Short horizontal pipe out through wall from burner can be single skin
We also need an air vent of at least 80 cm² - If we put the vent behind burner no probs with drafts

So, considerably more expensive than initially thought but still would have been our preferred option mainly due to controllability and timer etc

beccydan

Ouchy - sounds expensive - did you fit yourself?

Our downstairs is open plan-ish (the double doors from lounge/diner have been whipped off to the hall/stairs....) so whilst the room itself is only about 80m3 which suggests a 6kw, I've been eyeing up a 14kw burner in bricomarche....do you think I'm (literally) overcooking it?

Midgo

I'm not doing it myself, but am directing the builders in what to do with the aid of the manufacturers instructions.

We have 250 m³ downstairs (two main areas which are mostly open plan or with open and wide doors) and 150 m³ upstairs.
Since the 8 kW burners we have say 183 m³ (a very exact number!) we got two, both to go downstairs.

The house is having all new roof and exterior wall insulation (called 'Capoto' here) and double-glazed windows. They have knocked out all the windows but the roof insulation is in and the house feels warmer like this than it did with leaky windows and no insulation, when the wall insulation and windows are put in I predict a toasty abode.
The exit through the exterior wall insulation requires an inflammable square insert around the flue of at least 100 mm wider than the tube

We also have a fireplace in the living room, but I hope not to have to use it much as its a pain when I dont have any time as it is.

I am sure all the calcs are very estimative!

I think the main problem is going to be heat distribution. We have a big mobile floor fan that we used for summer, but that might come in handy.
We will suck it and see.

Our main problem (which would be the same with 'normal' wood burners) is finding good places to put them both where they are well distributed for distributing the heat around the house whilst not being within 20 cm of anything combustible and having a good place for the flue to exit and go up the wall without any obstacles.

Please note that I am no expert in these things, but 14 kW for 80 m³ seems very excessive, especially for open plan. You don't say if the house is well insulated which will make a big difference.

Good luck

beccydan

Lol! Thanks!! Will have a re-think and a chat with the builder. We've got dbl glazing doors and windows, but not sure how to find out (short of knocking a hole in it!) what sort of walls we've got - it was only built 8 years ago? No loft hatch so no way of knowing re roof insulation either. Have rechecked the survey and EPC but no clues there either....