carvoeiro

actually parliament took the decision to act on the brexit referendum result - the result itself meant nothing
their are no rules of -direct democracy in the UK- typical Brexit crap - just make any old rubbish up
so far all its achieved is allowing the Tories to do anything they like so long as they mention the word brexit first

zoff

Really!? Orange is not his real skin color, its his chosen fake skin color.
This con man...
...oh, never-mind.

mfesharne

Nonsense....... Parliament voted for the referendum and also to obey the result of it and if you think otherwise please do show me the last time a referendum was held in the UK & that result not complied with?

The laws and rules of direct democracy have been established in a plethora or laws & by immense sacrifice established over centuries.

but if you don't believe it or don't think it'll happen......... just sit back and wait and see.

you can deny as much as you like but it won't stop May invoking A50 in the near future.

That's how the British version of democracy works.

carvoeiro

coincidentally the typical brexit voter also like to paint themselves orange - allow small children to draw pictures on them and by an even more remarkable coincidence have the braincells of an average orange

no disrespect to oranges - a very delicious fruit - intended

carvoeiro

we really dont need another brexit debate -
as the brexit morons proudly state - at this moment we know nothing - may herself said they were too untrustworthy to be given any details of what they voted for - its a secret

what all sensible expats need to do is work out how best to protect themselves from the consequences of it
sadly this topic shows that anyone stupid enough as an expat to vote for it is alsp stupid enough not only to not work out what is best for themself but also to attack anyone - ie the vaste majority of sensible expats - who are trying to help themselves and others do whats best in the circumstances

Brexit supporters once again attack and try to destroy a worthwhile topic with nothing to add to it no facts to give no help offered - just mindless nonsense and abuse

carvoeiro

in fact the only country in Europe that has any form of direct democracy is Switzerland - i know this for a fact - i lived there and a vote on legislation was taken during that time and widely publicised in the papers including the history of the process and the fact - not a word Brexit morons are familiar with - that it is the only country that has that process enshrined in law
the UK in fact - has no direct democracy laws or statutes and would need a new act of parliament followed by the enacting of a new law - for example to make a referendum legally binding in that way
again sadly you are just talking nonsense - apologies not necessary

GeniB

Well actually Mfesharne we DID do something about it. We lobbied and annoyed the government so much that they have had to make good on a promise they broke when the weasel Cameron was in power. We have it on record that they WILL re-instate the right for British people to vote for life,something most citizens in the world have ,but arbitrarily taken away from ex-pats by our own Government.
We also signed a petition to parliament along with 2 million other ex-pats to make sure our voice was heard in the Brexit negotiations. The European end of those has declared publicly that we will be the 2nd point of the agenda once those negotiations begin.
Soooo i don't think that's whinging or whining. Thats getting off our tushes and doing something. Instead of bleating platitudes .

mfesharne

You guys can insult me all you like but you can't alter the fact that the majority voted to leave........ but that's already been said umpteen times before elsewhere & my point isn't about the rights or wrongs of Brexit.

My point is that worrying about it now achieves nothing whatsoever because negotiations haven't even begun yet so you don't even know what you'll have to worry about (if anything)

My own guess (for a variety of reasons) is that those that are already here (legally) will have the right to stay but even in the worst case scenario that we can't......... This is Portugal not Zimbabwe (etc) so no-one will have their property seized by the state or murdered in their beds or worse.

Better to wait until you know if there's anything to worry about & then deal with it when you know what you have to deal with.

As I see it, the biggest problem (by a country mile) right now is how ALL the media is whipping up hysteria & spreading fake news just to sell papers.

carvoeiro

wasnt that the basis of the Brexit campaign - feeding sheep and morons an endless string of lies to whip up support for Brexit
these are all facts -
no one ever defined Brexit- no details at all - just the premise that we would leave the EU - Brexit still has no definition - its a secret
the profile of the average Brexit voter - unemployed or already in receipt of an oap - yes this is a fact - rountree foundation- to take the most important decision in my lifetime neither of thise categories would be the people i would ask
the day after Brexit the papers all reported immigration was the big issue that had caused people to vote Brexit - it turned out later that all 17 million knew all of the intimate details of how the EU is structured every detail about how it trades all about the single market and the EAA etc etc - and that was why they voted - obscure technical trading rules- laughable isnt it
the rest of the Brexit press garbage - remember - FACTS
1 immigration - too many people - unemployment - benefits - nhs - schooling blame the EU - the uk at this point already has over 13 million non-eu immigrants - a couple of official figures to compare - eu people living in the uk - official figure - over 99% employed - average family under 2 children - Somalians 250k in central london - virtually all classed as refugees - official figures 99% unemployed average family almost 6 children - im not picking on the somalis almost all of the african populations in the uk - over 2 million have a similar profile
post Brexit the tories said they want an increase in non eu immigration every year - they stated their aim is to try to limit to 100k people net increase every single year - labour stated no limits they will allow however many the UK needs - Brexit people i think the joke is on you
2 make britain great - funny to begin with most Brexit people dont seem to know the difference between britain great britain the commonwealth and the UK - seriously 17 million mostly unemployed or retired people are going to make britain great - love to know how - the uk is - was already great as a hugely successful member of the biggest single trade block on the planet - the eu
3 unelected EU - seriously -meps etc - unreal that these people are so stupid - ironically the only unelected person involved in Brexit is may - a confirmed EU supporter - on tape supporting the remain campaign and stating outright the dangers to UK industry of leaving 2 weeks before the vote
4 more money for the nhs - 100% denied by the Tories the day afterwards
5 eu funding - wales the north east corwall etc were told they would still get eu funding after we leave - and they believed it - ridiculous
my personal favourite was - Churchill wants you to leave the EU - in fact Churchill was a huge fan of a united Europe and post ww11 was one of the leading figures who helped define Europe as we know it today - in the firm belief it was the way to prevent future wars

mfesharne

The truth is neither side could predict what would/wouldn't happen in either case because no-one can see into the future & both sides could only speculate........ Project Fear being a prime example.

But that doesn't alter the fact that the vote has decided the issue & negotiations not yet begun so no-one knows if there'll be anything to worry about or not.

So why not ignore the fear mongering & press hype & only start worrying if/when we know what's going to happen?

carvoeiro

youll never grasp the single fact that not preparing in any way you can is stupid

i have no faith in a country where the press preach hatred towards expats
the government called us bargaining chips
the government recently voted directly against resolving the situation for inpats and expats in the amendment proposed by the lords -

This week a new UK tax law was passed changing the law defining non-doms
this could result in a large and unexpected tax bill if you return to the UK - another sign of the spite and hatred felt towards expats

Naaling

Yes the majority voted to leave, but to LEAVE WHAT???

From most of the BBC interviews I've seen with Brexiters, it would seem that they actually believe that leaving the EU is the same as leaving Europe. It is not and never will be!
Have they ever looked at the map of Europe? London is nearer to Paris, Brussels and Amsterdam than it is to Edinburgh. What do they think Britain is going to do? Pull up anchor and drift into the North Atlantic!
Europe is the continent that Britain will always be part of, and this is something the more ignorant, xenophobic sections of the British community will have to learn to deal with.. The EU, on the other hand, is just the arbitury name of an organisation that will inevitably come and go. In fact it could cease to exist in its current form before Brexit negotiation are completed, thereby rendering the referendum vote totally meaningless.

Talk of Britain going it alone is foolish nonsense that completely denies the reality of the situation. (However it must be said that denying, or even being totally unaware of, the reality of the situation is something Brexiters are very good at!) TM and her cohorts have already made it clear that Britain is not leaving Europe, because they know it is not a realistic option. Apart from a couple of areas of disagreement, she appears committed to retain as much of the existing arrangements as possible.

There is a saying in politics "The more things change, the more they stay the same"
Politicians are expert at looking busy, when in fact they are doing nothing. They are like swans in reverse - its all activity above the water, but nothing's happening below.
It is in the interests of the parties on both sides of the channel for Britain's relationship with Europe to change as little as possible, so expect long, drawn out discussions that go nowhere and end up back where they started.
I believe it is TMs strategy to use Brexit as a bargaining chip to obtain the concessions she needs to pull back from actually leaving. Thats why the referendum was "not legally binding" from the start. So that there will be no legal issues for the goverment when she finally backs away from Brexit.

TM didn't want Britain to leave the EU before the referendum, and she doesn't now.

However, none of this will affect EU citizens that have already moved. TM has already indicated that she is prepared to protect the rights of EU citizens that are already in Britain if the EU reciprocates and protects the rights of British citizens in Europe. The EU has failed to do this, not because they are unwilling but because they are unable, since EU officials have been blocked from entering into any negotiations concerning Brexit until A50 is invoked.
However, the EU position is clearly, if unofficially stated here.

algarvedailynews.com/news/10572-expat-future-in-eu-to-be-given-fast-track-in-separation-talks

I believe this issue will be quickly and satisfactorally resolved once A50 is finally invoked.

mfesharne

some of you guys are still complaining about the result of the referendum which is a complete waste of time & emotion because it won't change anything.

The question on the ballot paper was quite simple. It asked the voter if they wished the UK to remain in the EU or to leave and nothing else. The majority voted to leave so that's what will happen & getting all upset about it won't achieve a single thing so you might as well accept it.

I fully understand people are concerned what will happen but as no-one knows the answer to that we might just as well wait & see what's agreed before we worry about it.

And hey, if you feel that strongly about the situation after the exit agreement is made, you can always do the democratic thing & petition your elected representative for a rejoin referendum after the Brexit is complete....... As is your right.

barlaventoexpert

The fact is that successive UK Govt's since WWI have tended to ignore & deride British who go to live abroad! Until the early-1950's, however, many Brits were still encourage to emigrate to the colonies.

Suddenly, in 10 years, with decolonisation started & many Brit expats in places like Kenya, Southern Rhodesia etc, who had thought the sun would never set on the Empire, suddenly found themselves where many Brits in the EU find themselves now! The UK never offered relocation packages. In the case of Rhodesia/Zimbabwe had such assistance been offered, it is possible that the worst of the "Chimurenga" could have been avoided.

When I compare Portugal, a poor country, managing to absorb back nearly 1mn "retornados" after 1974 & Britain's response to the Rhodesia issue, as well as Hong Kong British Nationals after the transfer of Hong Kong, there is no doubt, in my mind, that London's policies to Brits outside the UK has long been "Tough! They moved! Let themselves sort themselves out!"

Many countries such as Portugal, Italy, Greece & , I understand, New Zealand, actively value their expatriate citizens, even according, in some cases, seats in their Parliaments. In Portugal, there is a dedicated Secretary of State for Portuguese communities outside Portugal.The President, Prime Minister & other senior Ministers often meet with these groups when travelling.

What does Britain have, nothing! Worse than that, a large number of born & bred British subjects who were non-resident in the UK for 15 years prior to the referendum were denied a vote on their future and, effectively, classified as "Salazar-era" type 2nd class subjects!

Add to this, the mass press & media pro-Brexit braying, (backed up with little fact), pre-referendum, there is ABSOLUTELY no way, the referendum was fair nor democratic.

Ethically & morally, the murder of the late Jo Cox also should have immediately led to a 6 month postponement of the referendum BUT the Government carried on allowing a vote in a highly charged poisoned environment!

If there had been a fair and reasoned presentation of the all the pro's & cons pre-brexit in all the press & the media, together with reasoned debate & if all UK subjects over voting age, had had a right to vote, I would have no problem today saying a democratic decision was made, even if I felt it was wrong.

The fact is that the UK, to my horror, is in fact being run by a right-wing elite who are manipulating populist xenophobic sentiment to their own ends.

I am another who is heading down the road of Dual Nationality.

Prefiro estar uma cidadão de um país democratíco com o Portugal que uma de um reino onde a democraçia esta a morrer!

In the words of Samora Machel, a phrase which in my youth I hated, "a luta contínua!"

Naaling

I'm not complaining about anything. As long as I retain the right to live in Portugal, I really don't care.
I just pointed out that the "EU" is not the same as "Europe". And that those Brexiters who believe they really voted to leave Europe will be very disappionted!