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Old Dec 5th 2017, 10:39 am   #1
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Default Portugal & Ilegal Drugs

Something I think very few off us where aware off , is that PT innovate approach has actually been a massive success.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...orld-copied-it
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Old Dec 5th 2017, 11:17 am   #2
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Default Re: Portugal & Ilegal Drugs

It always depends with these stories, who writes the article; Amsterdam, Oakland, Uruguay and Portugal have these policies [although I'm not sure the GNR have been informed].

Right wing publications report it's all a big disaster, junkies everywhere, kids dropping out of school, breakdown of law and order, collapse of the family unit, etc.

Left wing publications report how it's working great, less drug addiction, less crime, rising education rates, less alcohol abuse, and the choirs are singing sweetly in each church.

How are such differing realities able to coexist?
Beats me, but it's always been that way.
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Old Dec 5th 2017, 7:58 pm   #3
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Default Re: Portugal & Ilegal Drugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by liveaboard View Post
It always depends with these stories, who writes the article; Amsterdam, Oakland, Uruguay and Portugal have these policies [although I'm not sure the GNR have been informed].

Right wing publications report it's all a big disaster, junkies everywhere, kids dropping out of school, breakdown of law and order, collapse of the family unit, etc.

Left wing publications report how it's working great, less drug addiction, less crime, rising education rates, less alcohol abuse, and the choirs are singing sweetly in each church.

How are such differing realities able to coexist?
Beats me, but it's always been that way.
Spot on!

Last edited by nogard; Dec 5th 2017 at 7:59 pm. Reason: Finger truoble
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Old Dec 5th 2017, 11:21 pm   #4
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Default Re: Portugal & Ilegal Drugs

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Originally Posted by nogard View Post
Spot on!
Lisbon has seen the benefit of the approach, but then it was really bad before..... I have friends whose families were devastated by drugs in the 90's and all those who were involved are now dead. Pretty graphic picture, eh?
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Old Dec 6th 2017, 8:20 am   #5
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Default Re: Portugal & Ilegal Drugs

I've lost friends to illegal drugs, and to alcohol, and to cigarette linked lung cancer too.
Several friends who were drug addicts in their youth have managed to keep clean [or at least, that's what they say]. But very few stop alcohol, and less manage to kick nicotine [probably the biggest killer].

Of course comparisons of addiction are impossible, as the legal substances are so easily available, socially acceptable, affordable, and impossible to avoid. But it seems to me that if drugs are going to be illegal, then tobacco and alcohol should be included. Otherwise, the prohibition is a sort of protectionism for the government approved addictions.

Just for the record; I'm an antisocial weirdo, and do not [never did] drink, smoke, or use narcotics of any sort myself.
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Old Dec 6th 2017, 9:23 am   #6
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Default Re: Portugal & Ilegal Drugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by liveaboard View Post
It always depends with these stories, who writes the article; Amsterdam, Oakland, Uruguay and Portugal have these policies [although I'm not sure the GNR have been informed].

Right wing publications report it's all a big disaster, junkies everywhere, kids dropping out of school, breakdown of law and order, collapse of the family unit, etc.

Left wing publications report how it's working great, less drug addiction, less crime, rising education rates, less alcohol abuse, and the choirs are singing sweetly in each church.

How are such differing realities able to coexist?
Beats me, but it's always been that way.

It' the old saying, 'There are lies, damn lies and statistics'
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Old Dec 6th 2017, 12:32 pm   #7
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Default Re: Portugal & Ilegal Drugs

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I've lost friends to illegal drugs, and to alcohol, and to cigarette linked lung cancer too.
Several friends who were drug addicts in their youth have managed to keep clean [or at least, that's what they say]. But very few stop alcohol, and less manage to kick nicotine [probably the biggest killer].
I agree with what you say, but the effect of criminalization was not to treat the problem but to make it worse.

The families I spoke about lost children (normally sons), who, before they died robbed everything that wasn't tied down to support their habit. One of the families, despite all this, paid three times for their son to go to rehab in Spain .... where he died in a gutter having walked out of rehab the day before. Lisbon had areas where you really couldn't go, petty crime was driven by the need to buy drugs - and it was getting worse. At the very least, this downward spiral seems to have ended - and to me, that's a success.
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Old Dec 6th 2017, 8:06 pm   #8
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Default Re: Portugal & Ilegal Drugs

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Originally Posted by macliam View Post
Lisbon has seen the benefit of the approach, but then it was really bad before..... I have friends whose families were devastated by drugs in the 90's and all those who were involved are now dead. Pretty graphic picture, eh?
Not really. People whom get hooked on drugs, tobacco and alcohol are pathetic and if they end up in a pine box; than the world is better off!

Last edited by nogard; Dec 6th 2017 at 8:08 pm. Reason: Finger trouble
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Old Dec 6th 2017, 8:24 pm   #9
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Default Re: Portugal & Ilegal Drugs

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Originally Posted by nogard View Post
Not really. People whom get hooked on drugs, tobacco and alcohol are pathetic and if they end up in a pine box; than the world is better off!
I'm sure the families concerned will appreciate your sympathy.

Presumably you've never heard the expression "If you have nothing good to say, don't say anything at all"?
- or is building your posting stats more important to you?
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Old Dec 7th 2017, 10:21 am   #10
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Default Re: Portugal & Ilegal Drugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by macliam View Post
I'm sure the families concerned will appreciate your sympathy.

Presumably you've never heard the expression "If you have nothing good to say, don't say anything at all"?
- or is building your posting stats more important to you?
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Old Dec 7th 2017, 1:12 pm   #11
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Default Re: Portugal & Ilegal Drugs

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Not really. People whom get hooked on drugs, tobacco and alcohol are pathetic and if they end up in a pine box; than the world is better off!
I don't usually make a post to call another post stupid; but that's a really stupid comment.
And nasty too.
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Old Dec 7th 2017, 9:08 pm   #12
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Default Re: Portugal & Ilegal Drugs

It happens to be my opinion, which i am entitled to; am i not?
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Old Dec 7th 2017, 10:32 pm   #13
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Default Re: Portugal & Ilegal Drugs

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It happens to be my opinion, which i am entitled to; am i not?
Sometimes it's better to say nothing.
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Old Dec 8th 2017, 6:51 am   #14
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Default Re: Portugal & Ilegal Drugs

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It happens to be my opinion, which i am entitled to; am i not?
And would you be of the same opinion if a member of your family found themselves in a position of being hooked? It happens to people from all walks of life.
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Old Dec 8th 2017, 12:49 pm   #15
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Default Re: Portugal & Ilegal Drugs

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It happens to be my opinion, which i am entitled to; am i not?
It's an addiction to bigotry.
Better get some treatment.
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