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Old Sep 3rd 2017, 10:03 pm   #16
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Default Re: Non EU residency rule change

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Originally Posted by mfesharne View Post
Although it could be argued that the vast majority of white Africans come from a European background & are far more culturally related to Europe than those currently trying to get to Europe in blow up boats etc.
Given that many were happy to live and prospered under racist repressive regimes they will find the changing multicultural nature of Europe not to their liking.
As I posted we owe them nothing or any special treatment because of their background.
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Old Sep 3rd 2017, 11:27 pm   #17
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Default Re: Non EU residency rule change

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Originally Posted by Ukkram View Post
The only reason I'm not happy about this is that PT may become non European in the long term. Overrun by non Europeans demanding their laws and foods.
I think the object of the changes is simply to legislate a route for the regularisation of the situation of people who've entered the country and overstayed but who have employment (or various other situations where chucking them out would be silly or inappropriate), rather than to force all of us to convert to Islam.
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 12:34 pm   #18
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Default Re: Non EU residency rule change

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Originally Posted by Ingles View Post
What an extremely sad & disturbing comment , we now live in the 21st Century
Very true,I doubt that ukram has been to those places in Portugal popular with Brits and others who demand their own cuisine, tv channels and foodstuffs.
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 12:50 pm   #19
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Default Re: Non EU residency rule change

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Originally Posted by mfesharne View Post
I could well have misunderstood it but if I have got it right it could make a massive difference to Portugal & many people with good skills but not so much capital & that can't be a bad thing.

Although I have to say I find it very surprising that Portugal can make it's own rules that don't toe the EU line.
The law is only for non-EU nationals. It won't apply to non-EU's who are family members of EU nationals, so nothing to do with the EU. The change is being brought in under Portuguese domestic immigration laws, which it can change at any time.

Not sure why you'd think it 'doesn't toe the EU line'. It doesn't have to.
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 2:04 pm   #20
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Default Re: Non EU residency rule change

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Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
The law is only for non-EU nationals. It won't apply to non-EU's who are family members of EU nationals, so nothing to do with the EU. The change is being brought in under Portuguese domestic immigration laws, which it can change at any time.

Not sure why you'd think it 'doesn't toe the EU line'. It doesn't have to.
I might be wrong but to me as PT is part of the Schengen Zone it should have to stick to the Schengen rules......... and isn't this rule change in breach of those?
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 2:04 pm   #21
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Default Re: Non EU residency rule change

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Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
The law is only for non-EU nationals. It won't apply to non-EU's who are family members of EU nationals, so nothing to do with the EU. The change is being brought in under Portuguese domestic immigration laws, which it can change at any time.

Not sure why you'd think it 'doesn't toe the EU line'. It doesn't have to.
There is a common immigration policy, though, with which this would appear not to be in keeping.

And when the idea of a variety of freedom of movement operating between Portuguese-speaking nations was raised recently, the matter of its possibly being complicated by Portugal's membership of Schengen was acknowledged but not deemed insurmountable.
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 2:16 pm   #22
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Default Re: Non EU residency rule change

The Golden Visa for third country nationals has been in place for some years and is allowed. Cyprus and I think Malta has a similar system.
This system has merely dropped the need of investing and buying property.

Some of SEF's webpages on immigration laws were only showing "Updating" yesterday.
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 2:34 pm   #23
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Default Re: Non EU residency rule change

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Originally Posted by mfesharne View Post
I might be wrong but to me as PT is part of the Schengen Zone it should have to stick to the Schengen rules......... and isn't this rule change in breach of those?
Schengen rules relate only to movement within the Schengen zone.
Nothing to do with individual countries non EU citizen regulations.
You may have noticed in your travels the different immigration desks.
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 2:43 pm   #24
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Default Re: Non EU residency rule change

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Originally Posted by EMR View Post
Schengen rules relate only to movement within the Schengen zone.
Nothing to do with individual countries non EU citizen regulations.
You may have noticed in your travels the different immigration desks.
The Schengen rules also relate to persons entering the area for work purposes.
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 2:47 pm   #25
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Default Re: Non EU residency rule change

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Originally Posted by Ukkram View Post
The Golden Visa for third country nationals has been in place for some years and is allowed. Cyprus and I think Malta has a similar system.
This system has merely dropped the need of investing and buying property.
That just reinforces the notion that the wealthy can buy pretty much anything but it isn't only the need to invest that's changed. The most significant thing here in my opinion is that it appears to give carte blanche to pretty much anybody to enter the labour market, regardless of nationality or skills.
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 3:05 pm   #26
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Default Re: Non EU residency rule change

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Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
That just reinforces the notion that the wealthy can buy pretty much anything but it isn't only the need to invest that's changed. The most significant thing here in my opinion is that it appears to give carte blanche to pretty much anybody to enter the labour market, regardless of nationality or skills.
Individual cases will still be decided by SEF & will still have to meet set criteria such as employment and/or skills etc & whilst the lump sum requirement of the Golden Visa system may no longer be required that might not be a bad thing for Portugal & applicants in many cases.
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 3:15 pm   #27
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Default Re: Non EU residency rule change

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Originally Posted by mfesharne View Post
I might be wrong but to me as PT is part of the Schengen Zone it should have to stick to the Schengen rules......... and isn't this rule change in breach of those?
Portugal is a Schengen country, and no, I don't believe this rule is in breach.

Schengen deals with the cross-border rights of those within it's borders. This new rule solely appears to be about residency for non-EU nationals in a single member state.
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 3:23 pm   #28
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Default Re: Non EU residency rule change

I'm certainly no expert but as I understand it the Schengen Zone & agreement covers more than simply free movement between member countries & also includes requirements (for example) for people from non EU countries that enter the zone on holiday but who then obtain work to return to their home country to apply for a change of visa & this change in the rules no longer requires them to do that.

Note the last 6 words of the 1st para in the link below where it says: " and the harmonisation of visa policies"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement

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Old Sep 4th 2017, 3:46 pm   #29
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Default Re: Non EU residency rule change

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Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
The Schengen rules also relate to persons entering the area for work purposes.
They still have to enter via the non EU gates.
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 6:18 pm   #30
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Default Re: Non EU residency rule change

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Originally Posted by mfesharne View Post
Individual cases will still be decided by SEF & will still have to meet set criteria such as employment and/or skills etc & whilst the lump sum requirement of the Golden Visa system may no longer be required that might not be a bad thing for Portugal & applicants in many cases.
The Golden Visa scheme is unaltered - this is completely separate.

With regard to individual cases being decided by the SEF, one of the reasons for the introduction of this legislation by its proposers was specifically to eradicate the discretionary powers and thus the arbitrary nature of those decisions on the part of the SEF with regard to people in employment. The SEF won't have the power to turn down applications on the basis of skills if the applicant has secured employment or established themselves as self-employed. They can only turn down applications on specific grounds (as per the 2nd of the links in your opening post).
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