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Old Sep 5th 2017, 9:53 pm   #1
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Default Move planned but not sure of how everything works (self-employed)

I am an EU citizen and my wife is not. We have two children who were born registered outside the EU. We plan to move to Portugal but it all seems so complicated regarding beaurocracy stuff. Especially since I am self-employed and work from home.

Our plan is to take a 3-month rental, sort out all our paperwork to get residency, then prolong rent/buy a place ASAP. (We want to rent at first so that we can easily visit plenty of potential houses before buying).

So my key questions are:

I understand that all I will need is a Certificado de Registro to allow me to stay beyond the three months. But what about my wife and children? Is being married/the children of an EU citizen enough for them to be able to stay as well?

Does my/our continued residency depend on proof of work/income/something like that? We would like our children to have access to the state school system, healthcare, etc. If so, since most of my clients and money is in my current country of residence and I'm self-employed, do I need to get an accountant to create some sort of proof of my income? Or just bring shed loads of bank statements? I won't be working for any one company in Portugal but I would like to start acquiring clients and paying taxes there, etc. I will be maintaining all my current clients and work so I will have an income.

I would like to open a bank account in Portugal, but I think I will need proof of address. But how can I get utility bills in my name if I'm renting short term (where presumably bills will be included in the rent we pay)? And then how can I sign a long-term rental agreement if I don't have a bank account? Seems like a catch 22.
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 10:02 pm   #2
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Default Re: Move planned but not sure of how everything works (self-employed)

This is an immigration pdf, in english, that will tell you the rules on EU citizens and family members......

http://www.sef.pt/documentos/56/Lei_..._Versao_EN.pdf
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 10:09 pm   #3
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Default Re: Move planned but not sure of how everything works (self-employed)

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Originally Posted by oc1012 View Post

I would like to open a bank account in Portugal, but I think I will need proof of address. But how can I get utility bills in my name if I'm renting short term (where presumably bills will be included in the rent we pay)? And then how can I sign a long-term rental agreement if I don't have a bank account? Seems like a catch 22.
You can open an account with the Portuguese bank Millennium at one of their offices abroad. We did this in London.
We needed proof of our UK address, passports and our NIF.

If you haven't got a NIF you can get one in Portugal by going into a finances office with your passport and UK address and they will give you one then and there.

Millenniums online banking can be set to english.

https://ind.millenniumbcp.pt/en/Part...s/welcome.aspx
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 10:13 pm   #4
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Default Re: Move planned but not sure of how everything works (self-employed)

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Originally Posted by oc1012 View Post
I am an EU citizen ...


....do I need to get an accountant to create some sort of proof of my income?
As an EU citizen you shouldn't have to provide proof of income to reside in Portugal.
There is freedom of movement within the EU.
If you are British this will obviously change post BREXIT.
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 10:13 pm   #5
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Default Re: Move planned but not sure of how everything works (self-employed)

Thanks Alice, the pdf is very helpful.

I think I should have added to my OP, we are living in Brazil so don't have a UK address either. What is the PT term for the finances office? Will be easier to find it later if we know what it's called in the local language!

I have dual Irish/UK citizenship, so Brexit won't cause us an issue.
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 10:16 pm   #6
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Default Re: Move planned but not sure of how everything works (self-employed)

Anyone moving to Portugal must apply for the Número de Indentificação Fiscal (NIF). An NIF number is required for a number of actions: to buy a house or car; when receiving income from work or business.

Applications for an NIF number can be made by tourists or residents at the local Tax Office (finanças), on presentation of a valid passport. The NIF will be issued at the initial application and a document with the number will be given to the applicant. The tax number will be used for all business transactions, buying and selling property and will appear on all tax returns.

https://www.angloinfo.com/how-to/portugal/moving
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 10:17 pm   #7
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Default Re: Move planned but not sure of how everything works (self-employed)

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Originally Posted by oc1012 View Post

I think I should have added to my OP, we are living in Brazil so don't have a UK address either.
I'm sure you'd be able to open a Millennium account in Brazil. They don't seem to mind where you live as long as you provide proof of your address.
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 10:19 pm   #8
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Default Re: Move planned but not sure of how everything works (self-employed)

Millennium have offices at..

São Paulo
R Iguatemi, 192, 7º Andar - Conjunto 73,
Itaim Bibi,
01451-010, São Paulo
Brasil
Contacts
Tel: 0055 11 3191 0700
Fax: 0055 11 3191 0710

Rio de Janeiro
Praia de Botafogo, 228 - Ala B - Piso 9º,
Conj 908
22250-040 Rio de Janeiro
Brasil
Contacts
Tel: 0055 21 2554 2100
Fax: 0055 21 2554 2111
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Old Sep 6th 2017, 7:06 am   #9
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Default Re: Move planned but not sure of how everything works (self-employed)

Why don't you get Irish PP's for your kids? This will simplify things.
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Old Sep 6th 2017, 12:08 pm   #10
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Default Re: Move planned but not sure of how everything works (self-employed)

Unfortunately because mine was acquired from my grandparents, I'm the last in the line! Can't transfer it to my children. From the links above it seems that family members of EU citizens get the exact same rights as the EU citizen though, so it shouldn't be a problem.
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Old Sep 6th 2017, 3:12 pm   #11
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Default Re: Move planned but not sure of how everything works (self-employed)

Perhaps by the time you arrive here the free movement between Portuguese speaking countries would be tabled.
CPLP: Portuguese PM champions freedom of residence establishment – “The sooner the better” | Club of Mozambique
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Old Sep 6th 2017, 3:19 pm   #12
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Default Re: Move planned but not sure of how everything works (self-employed)

Quote:
Originally Posted by oc1012 View Post
Thanks Alice, the pdf is very helpful.

I think I should have added to my OP, we are living in Brazil so don't have a UK address either. What is the PT term for the finances office? Will be easier to find it later if we know what it's called in the local language!

I have dual Irish/UK citizenship, so Brexit won't cause us an issue.
This will probably place you in a classic "catch 22" situation. As a non-resident you can't get a NIF without an EU address. To get a NIF as a resident you need a permanent address in PT ( A long term lease with signed lease agreement). However, you can't sign a lease without a NIF.
You will need someone to act as your Fiscal Representative until you get things sorted out.
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Old Sep 6th 2017, 3:27 pm   #13
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Default Re: Move planned but not sure of how everything works (self-employed)

I rented an apartment for 4 days via Airbnb and used that address. I just gave them the address verbally.
When I found long term rental I changed the address at Finanças before the lease was drawn up.

I recall a member here getting the NIF while temporally living in a caravan park.
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Old Sep 6th 2017, 3:45 pm   #14
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Default Re: Move planned but not sure of how everything works (self-employed)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukkram View Post
I rented an apartment for 4 days via Airbnb and used that address. I just gave them the address verbally.
When I found long term rental I changed the address at Finanças before the lease was drawn up.

I recall a member here getting the NIF while temporally living in a caravan park.
Variable bureaucracy again!
The information I provided was my situation at the end of 2015. I got the same story from 2 different Financas offices, one in Lisbon the other in Setubal.
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