tagjags

I need some info on registering my 19 footer Sea Ray in England( it is still registered in NJ,USA); I was told it would be easier and cheaper than here; Boat is in Porto, will be ridden in the Douro river and some little sea, for cruising,sightseeing and maybe fishing;

I´m a retired mechanic,have plenty of time, just finished rebuilding the 3.0 Mercruiser engine,want to enjoy this summer in the water ;

I checked with Capitania do Douro yesterday,they said it would be acceptable by portuguese law; if you are from England and know about this,your input is appeciated; thanks

k2397

It is very simple to register a boat on the UK SSR (Small Ships Registry), however to qualify for this you need to meet a few criteria.

You must be "ordinarily resident" in the UK
The boat must be under 24 metres in length
The boat must not be registered elsewhere (either foreign registry or "Part 1" UK Registry)

If your boat is registered elsewhere, you should have it removed from that register before registering it in the UK. I did this when I bought my present boat in Spain, with the broker handling the formalities.

If you meet the above criteria, the process is very simple and inexpensive and can in fact be done online.

See https://mcanet.mcga.gov.uk/ssr/ssr/

Another issue to be aware of concerns VAT. If you are bringing a non-EU vessel into the UK it is not likely to be VAT paid and will probably be liable for VAT on import.

There may also be issues if the boat is not CE marked around compliance with the RCD (Recreational Craft Directives) which classifies boats according to a standard intended to measure seaworthiness.

tagjags

Since the boat was first registered in the states-NJ (in 1987 or 1988?) it is still probably, registered there; is it a must to cancel that registration,or can that be disregarded,in this case?

This could be difficult,since i lost contact with the guy who sold it to me; he got divorced,a year later,and went back to NJ! And I never got a title from him,he was supposed to have gotten me a portuguese title;

I could email or call the N.J. State Marine Police (I myself had two boats registered there) and ask them about that cancellation,since the boat has been here,not running, for over 15 years ; I may have to have the Porto marine police (Capitania) certify this, since ,for NJ, I am not yet the owner of that HIN(hull identification number).

The boat entered the EC,in Portugal,legally,maybe 15 years ago; does that mean VAT is taken care of? This is important,because, since I now reside in Porto,Portugal, it seems to me,that the way will be, to register it to a british citizen, living,or staying, here in Portugal, which I may do,provided there are no more expenses.

tagjags

I just read the RCD and it seems to apply only to vessels constructed since 16 June 1998; RCD 2003/44/EC Recreational Craft Directive – Compliance Guide?

k2397

Hi again

As far as the NJ Registry is concerned I have no idea how that works. Does it need to be renewed periodically (as is the case with the UK registry)? If so it may have lapsed some time ago. In any event that is probably the least of your problems, I don't imagine that anyone will be checking.

The potential issues regarding VAT status and RCD compliance would be likely to cause issues if you tried to sell the boat. It is unlikely (though possible) that you would be asked to prove the boat's RCD and/or VAT status when using it. There may also be concerns raised by some insurers when you try to insure the boat.

As I understand it, the RCD does not apply if the boat was IN USE in the EEA before 16 June 1998 - construction date is irrelevant. See Recreational Craft Directive (RCD) | Buying a Boat | Legal Advice | Knowledge & Advice | Knowledge & Advice | RYA

As far as VAT is concerned, vessels built before 1985 are deemed VAT paid if they were in the EU on December 31, 1992, providing there’s paperwork to support both dates. See VAT and Yachts: The Essential Guide « YachtWorld UK

If, as you say, the boat entered Portugal legally some years ago, it is possible that VAT was paid at that time. But can you prove it?

Whatever the issues are with UK registry, I am sure that trying to register the boat in Portugal would be a thousand times worse!

tagjags

Good idea; yes, the NJ, USA, registration expired maybe 15 years ago,since it must be renewed each year;(I should know,i lived there for 20 years) however it might still be titled in the name of the previous owner,it probably still is;

Now: "IN USE" in the EE before 16 June 1998; I wonder what "in use" means; it was physically here,it was never titled nor registered here; VAT must be paid, they do not let it out of the"Alfandega" before you pay them ; I brought two 40 foot containers ,when I came back,two boats in them,had to pay before release;

If I register it in Holland(through email) it costs me over 350 euro for 2 years,almost no questions asked; but I think UK is only £25,for 5 years; but i think it must be in the name of a british resident(?); or a british person residing in Portugal,maybe part- time? can anyone confirm this?

tagjags

K2397,thank you,like you said,no one will check; no one can:

"Boat registration records in New Jersey are administered by the Motor Vehicle Commission. This agency does not facilitate online boat record searches for the general public. If you need a print-out, it will be necessary to submit a written request showing sufficient cause for needing the information. Boat records are maintained for 8 years";

I´m in the clear here,15 years went by;
Any british citizen/resident around here(Porto) that likes boating, wants to "own" a boat? with some nice rides in the Douro river, coming summer!

mfesharne

Have you looked into the boat handler's licence thing here?

I don't know much about it or even what it's proper name is but am fairly sure you need one for all craft that are over 5m in length and/or 5 hp engine & when I looked into it 5 years ago the test was only conducted in Portuguese........ I was also told they'll accept a similar licence from another EU country such as UK etc.

You can always rely on the bureaucrats to make life difficult for no good reason!

tagjags

Eh,Eh,for sure!

But I think I found the answer: it's very simple: SSR ,in the UK; I checked with the US Coast Guard,and the boat is no longer registered there,which is good to me,they only keep records for 8 years,in NJ,this way I don´t have to have the reg. cancelled there; K2397,again,your assumption was spot on, thanks

Looking now for somebody with UK nationality,or with residency in England, to have the boat registered in his/her name (you will then,some time later,sell it to me,I'm portuguese) under the SSR (Small Ships Register) in the UK; the cost is only £25,which I will pay; you should live or spend lots of time in Porto, and you (more than one person ok) will enjoy some nice boat rides in the DOURO river in the sunny days,I promise you that;I have a portuguese Captain´s Licence(Patrão de Costa); please PM me,or leave your comment below.

k2397

Good point about the "license". Not required in the UK, but something you could well be asked to produce over here. The normal thing for Brits sailing over here is the ICC (International Certificate of Competence) issued by the RYA. There are several sailing schools here on the Algarve who could issue one - not sure about the Porto area.

tagjags

I will check with the "Capitania/ Polícia Marítima" on that;

But since I am qualified to drive a boat in EU waters, and the boat will be registered in EU,that should suffice;
I am just driving it ,with permission from the owner,to test and tune it,and also to prevent those cylinders from getting all rusty inside from sitting(I'm actually a mechanic,more of a marine mechanic,lately).

mfesharne

Going slightly off topic....... When I first came to Portugal I bought myself a little 3.8 m fishing boat with a 5 hp outboard so I could fish Lake Cabril in the central zone % my Portuguese neighbour was kind enough to take me to register it here....... it didn't take long & cost was minimal.

A few weeks later I got a call from a guy who said he needed to inspect the boat so I told him it was here at the house........ He rocked up in a pick up truck that was full of ladders, spotlights & all kinds of kit......... and he climbed out the truck, put his clipboard ON my little fishing boat & asked where my fishing vessel was................. when I told him his clipboard was on it, he burst out laughing & proceeded to inspect it & then issue me with a certificate.

Turned out the girl in the registration office had written my application up for a 38m commercial fishing vessel rather than a 3.8m fishing boat and the certificate proved I was the owner of the smallest commercially licenced fishing vessel in the Portuguese fleet licenced for trawls, long lines, traps & sport fishing.

Which takes us back to my comment that " You can always rely on the bureaucrats to make life difficult for no good reason!" lol!

tagjags

yeah,public servants in portugal really suck(the stories i could tell!);

here we have a 38 meter (3800:2.54:12= 125 footer) SHIP with a 5 hp OUTBOARD!

now,the guy who came for the inspection... well,another A-hole; he didn´t catch it either! he didn´t care nor did he prepare himself

either one did not have their minds on the job!! period.

Portugal is the A hole of eurape,precisely 'cause of the dam public servants,i mean the public OFFENDERS ; it´s an eppidemy ,I have endured 20 years of these punks ,ALWAYS trying their best to leave theis stinking personal mark; and they all(well,not all,not the cops,for instance,they just abide by the punks' laws!) conspire to bring the country down;

back to the point:

before i register my 5 meter boat in the netherlands,(i´m about to), any UK resident wants to lend a hand and "own" a 50 meter ship?for a while...