Diddion

My wife and I, plus our Border Collie, Sam, have plans to relocate to Portugal in May 2018. If at sometime you come across any information, informed speculation or actual news on this, could you post it here? We are obviously particularly interested in healthcare and in uk state pension indexation. Thanks!!

GeniB

Not quite sure what you are looking for Diddion?...but well done in choosing Portugal for your future home.
The good news today is that the UK Government has agreed with the EU that all rights of EU citizens will be respected in the UK and ditto those of Brits in the EU.. so that bodes well..

ouriquejan

Health car is excellent, yes, even the nhs. My husband has his state pension paid into our Portuguese bank monthly, in euros. No problems there.

Where are you thinking of moving to?

EMR

No agreement has been reached, May has made a proposal that will form part of the brexit negotiations.
The final devil may well be in the detail.
I do think however that the position of expat retiring or retired in Portugal is not under any threat .
Those wanting to work May face reciprocal regulations as applied by the UK to EU workers.

Diddion

Thanks to all of you! In order of your posting:

GeniB: I don't have to explain why Portugal - I have found the Portuguese to be wonderful, friendly people, and the exPat communities I have come across seem much warmer than expats in other countries; many years ago my father retired to Spain and many of his UK expat friends and acquaintances did not seem, to use a French word, at all Sympa! As far as I am aware, talks have only been held relating to existing, rather than future, expats.

ouriquejan: Yes, I understand that Health Care is excellent. However, what seems not to be clear is whether future exPats will be entitled to free Healthcare, even if it is provided to current exPats. As far as the State Pension is concerned, the issue is not where it is paid, but it is whether it will benefit from future inflationary increases. It is now, for exPats in the EU, but generally not for British exPats elsewhere. When we leave, what will happen - that is the question.

We don't have a real idea where to go. Our original thoughts were north or north west of Tomar. Unhappily the recent tragedy means that we are likely to be looking at slightly less forested areas, perhaps a bit further south - around Santarem, maybe? Do you think we are over-reacting?

EMR - yes, and thanks for your comments. I have no concerns at all about being able to retire to Portugal, but it is the things which go with it (as I mentioned, healthcare and pension uprating) which seem to be unresolved, especially for future exPats.

AliceCaroline

Someone posted a good link on Facebook.
It's what the EU would like the UK to agree to.

It's what I'd like them to agree to aswel since I'm like Diddion and not moving to Portugal until next year.

The EU would like any EU citizens living in the UK, and vice versa, to be allowed to stay as long as they are there before the date of entry into force of the Withdrawal Agreement, which I think will be May 2019.

I get Diddions concerns...
Post Brexit will the UK state pension for those living in Portugal be frozen (no triple-lock increases) like it is for UK pensioners living in most non-EU countries, and will the UK still pick up the tab for the Healthcare of state pension aged Brits.

The link: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/site...ights_en_0.pdf

EMR

Pensions will have nothing to do with Portugal but only with the UK government.
Given the number of voters living in the EU , freezing them would be political suicide.

AliceCaroline

It would be a bilateral agreement EMR, the same as we already have with various countries.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-state-pension

Diddion

Thanks, AliceCaroline - shall we offer ourselves as negotiators? excellent link, by the way.

There are perhaps two groups of potential future Expats: those who receive the conditions applicable to existing residents, and those who fall outside that frame. We - those intending to relocate permanently before May 2019 - may find ourselves in either category. That is our first question: are there any long-term advantages of gaining Portuguese residency before May 2019, or have we already missed that particular boat? The second question is whether there will, in fact, be any difference between the healthcare and pension treatments of current and future expats.

In this regard it seems that the Portuguese attitude is much more positive than the (current) UK approach. I understand (but I may stand to be corrected) that individual EU countries can make their own agreements on pensions and healthcare; it is the larger elements of trade and migration that must have a single set of rules within the EU. The question is whether such bilateral agreements - as noted in your second post - are actually put in place, and exactly what they are. It is also a net benefit to the UK NHS costings to have older, and hence more expensive, people being supported by other countries. Finally, the warm relationship and long history between Portugal and the UK may also play a useful role as far as expat conditions are concerned. I certainly hope so.

The best outcome will, of course, be a continuation of healhcare and pension increases for new expats. Just in case, though, my wife and I will be taking out medical insurance with the hope of cancelling it before too long.

Red Eric

Even with a bilateral agreement, it's possible for pension increases to be frozen - witness the current agreement with NZ and the former agreement with Australia, which the Australians eventually withdrew from in protest over that very issue of the UK government's continued refusal to pay increases.

Doesn't seem to stop the UK from freezing pensions to roughly half of its pensioners resident abroad.

EMR

Still no reason to fear any change in your pension unless the UK government decides otherwise.
It was the UK who froze the pensions of those living outside of the EU.

AliceCaroline

We are just going to stick to our plan A and move over in January.
I just hope that when we get to the Camara to apply for our initial residency it goes smoothly, there is so much uncertainty out there.
I've decided there is no point worrying about it, what will be will be.

GeniB

YEP your right.. The news report was premature because no information was forthcoming on what exactly May had agreed too... precisely nothing it appears except that she wouldn't deport people Better luck on Monday eh----

AliceCaroline

This link takes you to a 15 document on the UKs opening position...

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ving-in-the-eu

I guess these bits have the most relevance to us Diddion.
It's all talk about how the UK will treat EU citizens, but obviously it's meant to work both ways.
Looks like the as yet unspecified "Specified Date" is something we are going to have to wait for.

"those EU citizens who arrived and became resident before the specified date but who have not accrued five years’ continuous residence at the time of the UK’s exit will be able to apply for temporary status in order to remain resident in the UK until they have accumulated five years, after which they will be eligible to apply for settled status;

those EU citizens who arrived after the specified date will be allowed to remain in theUK for at least a temporary period and may become eligible to settle permanently, depending on their circumstances – but this group should have no expectation of guaranteed settled status;

the ‘specified date’ will be no earlier than the 29 March 2017, the date the formal Article 50 process for exiting the EU was triggered, and no later than the date of theUK’s withdrawal from the EU. We expect to discuss the specified date with our European partners as part of delivering a reciprocal deal;

the UK will continue to export and uprate the UK State Pension within the EU;

the UK will seek to protect the healthcare arrangements currently set out in EU Social Security Coordination Regulations and domestic UK law for EU citizens who arrive in the UK before the specified date and for UK nationals living in the EU before the specified date"

Diddion

Thanks, Caroline. I think you and I would be interested to see what will be the position for expats whose arrival is after the specified date. From our perspective, the critical question is what that date will be; as I recall, the EU position has been that there can be no changes whilst the UK is a member state, so if this is how things pan out it implies the later date to be the relevant one.

I also wonder whether settled status, which seems to be relevant for the longer term and for those who miss the specified date would mean that those who may gain settled status in the future would then be eligible for the host country's healthcare - do you have any observations on this?

I also wonder whether the proposed pension uprating intended for everyone, or restricted to those who arrive before the specified date.