Originally Posted by liveaboard

account of a brit expat who got caught in it;
Portugal fire survivor: 'I should have died' - BBC News

It could even be one of us...

Originally Posted by Ingles

From the above quote !
The landlords must clean & maintain cleaned off fuel

"A stripe off more than 10 meters on both sides off any private road that gives access to buildings"

If you view the photos below off the EN 236-1 taken after the fire , it's obvious that's the above "law" has no affect when it comes to the Public Highway.
As there are Ecuy trees actually growing against the safety barrier !!!
Please Note :- 47 people where killed on this road.

Pedrógão Grande - "Estrada da morte". GNR vai avaliar todos os procedimentos

Originally Posted by Ingles

To little & much to bloody late !
This morning on the PT TV News , it was stated that a "tender" system was going to be opened so that companies could price for the clearance off trees from the "berma" - (side off the road) off the EN 236-1
According to info supplied by others on this thread , the said trees should never have been planted so close to the road in the first place!
Will any body be prosecuted for this illegal action ?
The Cellulose Industry in PT has massive political clout , so don't expect any drastic changes to the system in the near future

Originally Posted by Diddion

I am not, as yet, a Portuguese resident, though will be during 2018. I have been following these events with great sadness and concern, and extend my sympathy for all those affected.

I wonder whether the justifiable anger expressed in this thread and elsewhere is directed to the right sources, though. It is ultimately, of course, the responsibility of any government to create and enforce legislation, and it certainly seems that the enforcement of fire control measures has been sadly lacking. However, perhaps it goes deeper, and I would look to the funding issues of the bombeiros. As I understand it, funding arises from the camara and central government, but clearly at inadequate levels, How can anyone expect a service reliant upon unpaid volunteers (who, I understand, sometimes even have to pay for their own protective gear) and the goodwill of the population to provide equipment, to be able to fulfil the needs of the country?

Here, in the UK - which most certainly does not have the same level of fire sensitivity! - firefighters are paid for their work, equipped and supported fully by their local authorites, which have to follow national standards (I am not an expert on this area). I have never been stopped in the UK at a roundabout by firefighters requesting funds, as has happened to me in Portugal. Whilst I have willingly given a donation, I think it is really sad that this should be needed. All firefighters should, I suggest, be paid for their work, and central sources of finance significantly strengthened.

So, perhaps, proper funding is the answer.

Originally Posted by macliam

The dedication, bravery and effectiveness of the bombeiros is not in question and, whilst more equipment is always helpful, it is not a lack which causes problems. Local funding for the bombeiros is an issue, some stations don't even have decent conditions for them to relax in when on standby - but, again, throwing money at a problem doesn't always fix it..

Originally Posted by Diddion

Thanks, Macliam, and I take your point about the community element of this, though I still feel it wrong that their equipment needs are not fully met by local or national government sources. Agreed, throwing money at any problem is not guaranteed to fix it - but it often helps!

But it is possible I have also misunderstood the role of the bombeiros as far as enforcement is concerned. It is clear from your post and others that there have been many years of unwise eucalyptus planting and inadequate management. But if the bombeiros is indeed the enforcement agency, then this element of their role, at least, will surely need increased numbers and increased funding, I would have thought.

Originally Posted by macliam

Hi Peter, I'm glad you're safe and I hope there are no other victims. I see one of the bombeiros has died and I hope that, this year, there will be no scandalous delays in taking care of his family at this tragic time.

Having experienced my own fire last year, I can imagine the nightmare around you. I was in the open and could escape - being in the forest and at night is the stuff of horror films. I had one eucalyptus that I had chopped down and was drying out before cutting. It reignited at least half a dozen times, despite being soaked. The bombeiros called it a "fonte de fogo" and watched it for almost an hour before declaring it safe - but still told me to keep an eye on it. That was ONE eucalyptus, imagine a forest of them!

I know the area north of you, around Talhadas de Vouga, very well. My FiL's house was surrounded by forest - and the idea of being caught on the roads around him in a fire isn't something I care to dwell on. The victims all look so typical of his neighbours too - the old people, the young couples, the visitors, the emigrants returning home for a visit, the little kids. It could have neen us, any time over the last 25 years. Truly, truly horrible.

The government must act to resolve the problem of the forested areas. The number of fires in such a small country is scandalous, so the number of holdings must be reduced and managed as larger estates. If it's not economic, then the trees must be cleared - people's lives should not be at constant risk so that others can make money - others who are subsidised by eveyone in Portugal each time a bombeiro has to tackle an unnecessary fire - others, who may well be receiving a subsidy from the state for maintenance, but prefer to spend it on a new car. Time for change.

Originally Posted by macliam

The "enforcement" agency (in most cases) is the police, the GNR - and more specifically the "GNR ambiente" (SEPNA). The bombeiros are only the firefighters, they don't have enforcement powers like in the UK. That's why they are always accompanied by the GNR when there's a fire.

Originally Posted by Diddion

Thanks for putting me right on how things are structured, macliam. Perhaps I'll understand it all a bit better once I am a resident of Portugal, next year.

So there is at any rate an enforcement issue, as noted in previous posts. This clearly must be associated with the political will, or lack of it, and maybe the provision of suitable resources?? (ie, am I completely wrong, or only partially wrong?)