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Old Jun 22nd 2017, 12:42 pm   #76
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Default Re: Forest Fires

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfesharne View Post
From a Portuguese friend of mine who lectures on fire prevention etc:

I intend to enforce this to the absolute hilt in the area surrounding my home:

Accordingly to the law (Decreto-Lei n.º 17/2009, de 14 de Janeiro):

The landlords must clean and maintain cleaned of fuel:
- A stripe of more than 10 meters on both sides of any private road that gives access to any building;
- A minimum of 50 meters around the external walls of any building.

If they don’t comply with that, they can be fined 140 to 5,000 euro if it’s a private owner or 800 to 60,000 euro if it’s a company.

In case the area to be cleaned of fuel belongs to different owners each one must clean his own area so in total the law is complied.

The responsibility of the cleanings belongs to the owners, the tenants or whoever is using the land.

In case the owner doesn’t comply the municipality (Camara Municipal) should notify him and if nothing is done the Camara Municipal or the ICNF – Instituto da Conservacao da Natureza e das Florestas should do the cleaning and then ask the owner to pay them the debt.

This will hardly happen. In Portugal the government will never pay upfront of the owner, so they considered another way of solving the problem:

Owner B (who is afraid of burning himself and his belongings) replace Owner A (who should clean his land). Owner B should notify Owner A and post a notice in his land for 20 days (a few written signs in the property). In case nothing happens in the next 10 working days Owner B can do the cleaning and use all legal means to receive payment from Owner A. Owner B can sell the trees to pay those costs and later settle balance with Owner A.

Possibly it’s going to cost you more than the income from the wood. But if it’s the only available solution...

Attached a manual regarding the subject in Portuguese.

After all that happened in your area I believe the municipality or the ICNF will do the job.
You should contact the Camara Municipal and complain about it.
You can print this information and show them so there are no excuses.

Call me if you need any further help.
I wish you luck and I hope attitudes have changed as a result of this disaster.

As I posted previously, with a fire at my property last year, the bombeiros, GNR and SEPNA attended and noted that my neighbour had neither done his aceiros (ploughed firebreak) nor cleared the esteva (cistus) from my boundary (which at that point is about 25m from my house). They also noted that the land actoss the road from me was overgrown and untended (has been for 5 years). They did not make any comment on the fact that the access road was also bounded by esteva on the camara-controlled side....

Nothing has happened. My neighbour has so far not ploughed aceiros this year either and no clearance has been done......

OK, it's not eucalyptus or pine (although they are scattered across the area) but if you've seen how scrub and esteva burn, it's still a worry.
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Old Jun 23rd 2017, 11:17 am   #77
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Default Re: Forest Fires

From the above quote !
The landlords must clean & maintain cleaned off fuel

"A stripe off more than 10 meters on both sides off any private road that gives access to buildings"

If you view the photos below off the EN 236-1 taken after the fire , it's obvious that's the above "law" has no affect when it comes to the Public Highway.
As there are Ecuy trees actually growing against the safety barrier !!!
Please Note :- 47 people where killed on this road.

Pedrógão Grande - "Estrada da morte". GNR vai avaliar todos os procedimentos
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Last edited by Ingles; Jun 23rd 2017 at 11:19 am. Reason: comment added
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Old Jun 23rd 2017, 11:45 am   #78
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Default Re: Forest Fires

A statement from Quercus on the Pedrógão Fire

Incêndio de Pedrógão Grande

translates AOK
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Old Jun 23rd 2017, 1:25 pm   #79
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Default Re: Forest Fires

In my particular case, I intend to follow procedure & if it's ignored then I'll cut it myself whether the cops, the owners or lord God almighty himself likes it or not & the busstards can chase me through the courts & I'll make it as difficult as I can for all of them
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Old Jun 23rd 2017, 2:12 pm   #80
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Default Re: Forest Fires

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingles View Post
A statement from Quercus on the Pedrógão Fire

Incêndio de Pedrógão Grande

translates AOK
If it translates OK then why not post the translation for those who have difficulty using a translator.

Peter
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Old Jun 23rd 2017, 2:14 pm   #81
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Default Re: Forest Fires

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfesharne View Post
In my particular case, I intend to follow procedure & if it's ignored then I'll cut it myself whether the cops, the owners or lord God almighty himself likes it or not & the busstards can chase me through the courts & I'll make it as difficult as I can for all of them
Good luck Steve and if you need help ask.

Peter
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Old Jun 23rd 2017, 2:38 pm   #82
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Default Re: Forest Fires

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Originally Posted by peterfc View Post
If it translates OK then why not post the translation for those who have difficulty using a translator.

Peter
OMG doe's he ever stop
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Old Jun 23rd 2017, 3:34 pm   #83
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Default Re: Forest Fires

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Originally Posted by Ingles View Post
OMG doe's he ever stop
What's your problem?

There are many who come on here who wouldn't know how to translate so just help them is that to much a problem.

I would rather help people

Peter

Last edited by Rosemary; Jun 23rd 2017 at 10:01 pm. Reason: removed insult
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Old Jun 23rd 2017, 3:37 pm   #84
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Default Re: Forest Fires

Translated by PETER using Google Translate

Fire of Big Pedrógão
Quercus considers necessary clearance of responsibilities and recalls management mistakes of successive Governments in the forest area

Quercus expresses its deep regret for the mortal victims of the tragedy of the great fire in Pedrógão Grande, Castanheira de Pêra and Figueiró dos Vinhos, especially the relatives of the victims and citizens of the affected municipalities. On this occasion, he also recalls the errors of management and bad political decisions in the area of ​​forests that have been taken by successive Governments and demands that once the work to combat this fire and support for the victims be completed, Deep reflection on what led to these tragic events.

Lack of planning and forest management

In spite of this worrying scenario, Quercus recalls the warnings it has made over the years to successive Governments for the need to adopt long-term public policies that promote sustainable forest management but which unfortunately remain unapproved and implemented .

Forest fires are considered the greatest environmental problem in our country, however, the Government continues without implementing long-term public policies that promote the sustainable management of the forest and the rural area, which make the territory more resilient to fires.

The previous Government, in a totally irresponsible manner, approved a system of afforestation (known by the "Eucalyptus Law" because of the favor it gives to this species), which is promoting the disorder, with the expansion of eucalyptus trees and the consequent increase in propagation and Forest fires, which affect people and property, with adverse social, environmental and economic consequences. On the other hand, the current government, which has promised to end this "eucalyptus law", has so far failed to keep that promise.

Eucalyptus is already the forest species that occupies the largest area in Portugal, having exceeded the pines and cork oak, occupying the scandalous area of ​​about 900,000 ha.

With the existence of huge continuous stains of eucalyptus, sometimes thousands of hectares, it is inevitable that large fires occur, since eucalyptus is very inflammable and causes fires of great intensity, aggravated by the fact that the wind generated by the eucalyptus Fire design for other locations eucalyptus shell on fire, giving rise to other fire fronts.

Non-compliance with Forest Fire Protection Legislation (DFCI)

In the attributions of the legislation of the National Forest Fire Protection System (SNDFCI), the Institute for Nature Conservation and Forests (ICNF) is responsible for coordinating structural prevention actions, namely planning with the management of firefighters and the organization Of the forest territory, a situation currently neglected.

Municipalities, for their part, have a legal obligation to prepare and enforce the Municipal Forest Fire Protection Plan (PMDFCI) and the Municipal Operational Plan (POM), which has been clearly neglected in most municipalities.

Quercus considers that poor compliance with the DFCI legislation, as well as the laxity of local and central administrations in this area, has aggravated the problem of the propagation of forest fires in Portugal, with high environmental, material and human damages. Well as justice, it is considered essential to establish responsibilities.

Due to the non-compliance of the Forest Fire Protection legislation, a complaint was made by Quercus to the Attorney General's Office four years ago, which unfortunately ended up having no consequences.

The future of the forest

Without a change in public policies for forest and rural development that promote investment in the rural world to maintain crops, in a mosaic landscape more resilient to fires, the country is likely to continue to witness successive tragedies that we can not accept. The paradigm in force today means that the State, or all of us, have the responsibility and the bill to pay for these tragedies, so that few will benefit from the measures that are being approved in order to protect their business.

Climate change, which is already felt in Portugal, brings additional challenges to the forestry sector, with increasing frequency of extreme climatic conditions, such as prolonged periods of drought, which further increase the risk of fire.

Quercus considers that after this phase of fighting and the necessary support to the victims of fires, a deep reflection must be made on what has led to these tragic events, so that, with firm and rapid measures, the current and amended provisions are readjusted In a radical way the paradigm in force in the national forest.

PETER

Last edited by Rosemary; Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:15 pm. Reason: Reduced the spacing
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Old Jun 23rd 2017, 3:42 pm   #85
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Default Re: Forest Fires

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterfc View Post
What's your problem?

There are many who come on here who wouldn't know how to translate so just help them is that to much a problem.

I would rather help people than well you know what you are you don't need me to tell you.

Peter
Deep breath Peter! He may not have the time!
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Old Jun 23rd 2017, 4:04 pm   #86
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Default Re: Forest Fires

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterfc View Post
What's your problem?

There are many who come on here who wouldn't know how to translate so just help them is that to much a problem.

I would rather help people <snip>
Peter
Insult removed from previous post and quote therefore your comment removed.
Thank you "nogard"
I was on 'stand by' this morning, as I volunteer for our local Ambulance Transport Service which in my area is run by Santa Casa Misericórdia & we where called out to run a patient up to San Andrea Hospital in Leiria for a consultation that had been brought forward.
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Last edited by Rosemary; Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:20 pm. Reason: Tidying up the comments
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Old Jun 23rd 2017, 4:07 pm   #87
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Default Re: Forest Fires

Please, gentlemen, maybe this exchange is better conducted by pm?
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Old Jun 23rd 2017, 4:36 pm   #88
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Default Re: Forest Fires

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Originally Posted by Diddion View Post
Please, gentlemen, maybe this exchange is better conducted by pm?
I totally agree.... It's so easy to misinterpret something posted on a forum. Please take deep breaths and remember what we are talking about on here.. People have died.. we are lucky.
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Old Jun 23rd 2017, 7:30 pm   #89
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Default Re: Forest Fires

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterfc View Post
What's your problem?

There are many who come on here who wouldn't know how to translate so just help them is that to much a problem.

I would rather help people
Peter
Sorry Rosemary your incorrect , the insult is still in the original post
Please be as good as too delete
Thank You
Ingles
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Last edited by Rosemary; Jun 23rd 2017 at 10:02 pm. Reason: removed insult from quote
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Old Jun 23rd 2017, 10:05 pm   #90
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Default Re: Forest Fires

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Originally Posted by Ingles View Post
Sorry Rosemary your incorrect , the insult is still in the original post
Please be as good as too delete
Thank You
Ingles
Strange, I removed it but then it seemed to reappear. Sorry, I have done it again, hopefully more successfully this time.

Rosemary
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