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Old Jul 3rd 2017, 4:09 pm   #91
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Default Re: The English on Holiday

Originally Posted by GeniB
"We are after all demanding that muslims come up and protest against their own' religious nutters'..giving them a bad name.(albeit a tad more violent)"

I missed this post, but are you seriously suggesting that a few drunken yobs having a little punch up, can be compared with terrorists, who are killing and naming people and blowing themselves up?

Are you crazy? I think you should get a job as a BBC journalist, you have been out in the sun too long.
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Old Jul 3rd 2017, 5:45 pm   #92
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Default Re: The English on Holiday

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Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
It seems our view of the past influenced by age but also ideology. I wasbnorn in poor part of North East, but certainly standards of behavior have declined.
That a certain part of Newcastle is called the " Pig Market " is more than just coincidence.
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Old Jul 3rd 2017, 6:23 pm   #93
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Default Re: The English on Holiday

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Lets go back a further 20 years to the early 40's, when their was "proper respect", the good old days. ...
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... Have you guys heard of a a thing called war ...
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Old Jul 3rd 2017, 7:12 pm   #94
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Default Re: The English on Holiday

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I think you are being a little selective in these dates of bad behaviour, certainly people behaved themselves in the forties and fifties. In the forties they we busy killing Germans and the fifties they were trying feed their families.... then came the sixties...

In the sixties, kids had a bit of spare cash, they spread their wings and the trouble began. The trouble is almost directly proportional to the money in people's pockets, or their ability to borrow it, as is now the case.

My mother was often telling me "people never got divorced in my day" and I would explain that "women would starve if they left their husband," little wonder that nowadays 75% of all divorces are instigated by women.

My father told me that in the 1920s/1930's, men would blow all their wages on Friday night and then go home and beat their wives up, indeed my Irish Grandfather was the local "peacemaker" in North London. This was a very common occurrence, so I think a rumble in Portugal once a year is better than that.

I think human nature is the same as it ever was. "If you can you will, if you can't you wont."

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Old Jul 3rd 2017, 7:35 pm   #95
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Default Re: The English on Holiday

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I think you are being a little selective in these dates of bad behaviour ...
I was being selective in my quotes - you selected the dates.
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Old Jul 3rd 2017, 7:56 pm   #96
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Default Re: The English on Holiday

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Originally Posted by AllanB View Post
I think you are being a little selective in these dates of bad behaviour, certainly people behaved themselves in the forties and fifties. In the forties they we busy killing Germans and the fifties they were trying feed their families.... then came the sixties...

In the sixties, kids had a bit of spare cash, they spread their wings and the trouble began. The trouble is almost directly proportional to the money in people's pockets, or their ability to borrow it, as is now the case.

My mother was often telling me "people never got divorced in my day" and I would explain that "women would starve if they left their husband," little wonder that nowadays 75% of all divorces are instigated by women.

My father told me that in the 1920s/1930's, men would blow all their wages on Friday night and then go home and beat their wives up, indeed my Irish Grandfather was the local "peacemaker" in North London. This was a very common occurrence, so I think a rumble in Portugal once a year is better than that.

I think human nature is the same as it ever was. "If you can you will, if you can't you wont."
Except public drunkenness, vomiting and lying passed out in the streets seems to be a particularly British thing.
I suppose that's preferable to shooting one and other like the US, is that human nature also? "If you can you will, if you can't you wont." Far better to make it that you can't don't you think?
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Old Jul 3rd 2017, 8:12 pm   #97
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Default Re: The English on Holiday

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Except public drunkenness, vomiting and lying passed out in the streets seems to be a particularly British thing.
I suppose that's preferable to shooting one and other like the US, is that human nature also? "If you can you will, if you can't you wont." Far better to make it that you can't don't you think?
And Australia, New Zealand, Thailand, Norway, Russia, Poland, China and those are just the countries I know of...so no, not unique to Britain at all, that is a complete myth. Plus I have seen many other nationalities behaving very badly in Thailand, in my peaceful town.

You should also know that the UK has one of the lowest murder rates in the world, so perhaps we are not so bad.
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Old Jul 3rd 2017, 10:54 pm   #98
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Default Re: The English on Holiday

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Originally Posted by AllanB View Post
Originally Posted by GeniB
"We are after all demanding that muslims come up and protest against their own' religious nutters'..giving them a bad name.(albeit a tad more violent)"

I missed this post, but are you seriously suggesting that a few drunken yobs having a little punch up, can be compared with terrorists, who are killing and naming people and blowing themselves up?

Are you crazy? I think you should get a job as a BBC journalist, you have been out in the sun too long.
Alan I suggest you lie down in a darkened room for awhile..It rather sounds as if your the one with sunstroke.This is your second rather 'rabid go' on two different sites

'A few drunken yobs' can be extremely frightening to ordinary law abiding citizens and their children,especially when they are not even speaking your language. 'Having a little punch up' ? you make it sound so cute and cuddly..Its not I assure you . Fear doesn't have degree's,terrorist or violent drunk with a broken bottle...People die from both.
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Old Jul 3rd 2017, 10:58 pm   #99
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Default Re: The English on Holiday



Quote:
Originally Posted by GeniB View Post
Alan I suggest you lie down in a darkened room for awhile..It rather sounds as if your the one with sunstroke.This is your second rather 'rabid go' on two different sites

'A few drunken yobs' can be extremely frightening to ordinary law abiding citizens and their children,especially when they are not even speaking your language. 'Having a little punch up' ? you make it sound so cute and cuddly..Its not I assure you . Fear doesn't have degree's,terrorist or violent drunk with a broken bottle...People die from both.
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Old Jul 3rd 2017, 11:33 pm   #100
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Default Re: The English on Holiday

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Originally Posted by GeniB View Post
Alan I suggest you lie down in a darkened room for awhile..It rather sounds as if your the one with sunstroke.This is your second rather 'rabid go' on two different sites

'A few drunken yobs' can be extremely frightening to ordinary law abiding citizens and their children,especially when they are not even speaking your language. 'Having a little punch up' ? you make it sound so cute and cuddly..Its not I assure you . Fear doesn't have degree's,terrorist or violent drunk with a broken bottle...People die from both.
The fact is I have had a lot of first hand experience of these incidents, in many different countries and have then seen those same incidents reported on the TV afterwards. Most bear little resemblance to the reality, they are made to look 100 times worse just to sell the story to couch potatoes.

These punch ups invariably involve only those who want to get involved, apart from a few broken windows. A bit scary for some, possibly.

A perfect example has already been mentioned, the Mod v Rockers, which was shown on the news, front page, for weeks like it was a major war. But they never mentioned that no one was killed, or seriously injured and very little damage was done too.

I also saw first hand, the aftermath of the IRA bombing of Harrods, so don't you dare compare the two.
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Old Jul 4th 2017, 12:23 am   #101
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Default Re: The English on Holiday

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You should also know that the UK has one of the lowest murder rates in the world, so perhaps we are not so bad.
Don't they have a special ASBO law in the UK. It doesn't seem to be working or not properly enforced.

What do you think the murder rate would be if every man, woman and child had a gun? As they pretty much do in the US.
Sensible gun laws work
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Old Jul 4th 2017, 12:30 am   #102
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Default Re: The English on Holiday

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The fact is I have had a lot of first hand experience of these incidents, in many different countries and have then seen those same incidents reported on the TV afterwards. Most bear little resemblance to the reality, they are made to look 100 times worse just to sell the story to couch potatoes.

These punch ups invariably involve only those who want to get involved, apart from a few broken windows. A bit scary for some, possibly.

A perfect example has already been mentioned, the Mod v Rockers, which was shown on the news, front page, for weeks like it was a major war. But they never mentioned that no one was killed, or seriously injured and very little damage was done too.
On the contrary people have died and been seriously injured in these rampages, and mindless violence
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Old Jul 4th 2017, 10:27 am   #103
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Default Re: The English on Holiday

No comment ,other than this reflects on the "sad state" the UK has sliped into!

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...related-cancer
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Old Jul 4th 2017, 11:19 am   #104
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No comment ,other than this reflects on the "sad state" the UK has sliped into!

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...related-cancer
I have problems with these pure statistics-based "exposés" (or, at least, with the reporting of them). In this case, how alcohol is consumed and the form it takes are important - pickling your organs in "shots" of high-percentage alcohol without food is far worse than drinking a glass or two of wine (or beer) regularly as part of a meal. In the middle ages it was safer to drink beer than water - people died when the beer was too weak. Likewise, people have fermented grape juice for centuries. Mass-produced, industrial grade alcohol is different.

What all these sensationalist headlines miss, is the change in behaviour that underlines health issues. People take less exercise, people use more chemicals, be it vaping, drugs or food additives, people eat more red meat, people drink more alcohol, people eat more fat and poorly processed food, people think more about the "quality" of their alcohol than about the quality of their food. At the same time, many of the old "killers" have been removed by advances in medicine, so these other ailments take more prominence. If there is a headline anywhere, it is that excess is not good for you - your body was not designed to take it forever, so something is going to give. I'm sure the incidence of road traffic accidents is far higher in London than in the Sahara - but it's not really very helpful, is it?

So let's not look at the tools - or the availability - but the psychology of young people who go out to get drunk. Young people who drink BEFORE arriving at a venue to get a head-start. Young people who engage in stupid games based on slamming as much alcohol into their systems in the shortest time possible. This doesn't seem to work amongst the Portuguese (although there are always exceptions) or with many other nationalities - but the nordics (including Brits) seem to have a pre-disposition to alcohol abuse.

For sure the answer is far more complex than "more than 2 drinks gives you cancer"
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Old Jul 5th 2017, 12:16 pm   #105
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Default Re: The English on Holiday

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I think you are being a little selective in these dates of bad behaviour, certainly people behaved themselves in the forties and fifties. In the forties they we busy killing Germans and the fifties they were trying feed their families.... then came the sixties...

In the sixties, kids had a bit of spare cash, they spread their wings and the trouble began. The trouble is almost directly proportional to the money in people's pockets, or their ability to borrow it, as is now the case.

My mother was often telling me "people never got divorced in my day" and I would explain that "women would starve if they left their husband," little wonder that nowadays 75% of all divorces are instigated by women.

My father told me that in the 1920s/1930's, men would blow all their wages on Friday night and then go home and beat their wives up, indeed my Irish Grandfather was the local "peacemaker" in North London. This was a very common occurrence, so I think a rumble in Portugal once a year is better than that.

I think human nature is the same as it ever was. "If you can you will, if you can't you wont."
It could be an interesting discussion whether the social changes resulting in the behavior of some or many today, have been overall beneficial to society. The lack of stability in families and effects on children hardly is an improvement. However due to ideology a hard discussion o have in this modern world.

Judging from where I was born in North East, and what my parents and grandparents told me, and what I see around today maybe "human nature" the same, but the human behavior has declined considerably.
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