LouisB

Maybe. I guess it's confusing, 'you' meaning everyone is addressed, as in 'your country wants You'

... Me? but I'm a child, I don't even live in the Uk. This request is redicicoulos, I must strongly object at this direct harassment...

Confusing.

If only they understood 😉

mfesharne

Actually the quote was "your country needs you!"

It's not harassment at all & I apologise if you thought it was but gramatically, the use of the word 'you' instead of 'they' implied you were criticising me rather than 'them'

The difference between good & bad grammar can be found in the the difference between 'helping your Uncle Jack off a horse' & helping your uncle jack off a horse.

Perhaps not the most polite of analogies but definitely completely an accurate & dare I say humorous one.

LouisB

'Your country needs you!' Yes that's right.

You, used in the same way.

The post wasn't directed at you (that's specifically you, mfesharne)

It was directed at you, the general reader (that is not you, mfesharne).

I could say 'they' to address the general reader, but that's not good form.

I can put brackets in when I am referring to you (that's you, mfesharne) if you can't follow it or find it confusing. Or just use the convention that if not a direct reply to you (mfesharne) don't assume it is only intended for you. Otherwise, ego is exactly the point (again aimed at you mfesharne)

Naaling

Back to the thread topic!

As soon as TM announced this election, last year's referendum became history.

It is now no more important than the result of 2015 General Election. Britains future will now ride on the result of the coming election, and on that election alone.

LouisB

Agree, it's an important deciding factor now, superseding the previous.

mfesharne

And just think we have 7 weeks of political posturing, propaganda, BS & lies to look forward to....... Not exactly deep joy hey?

And at the end of it, the sun will still rise & set. The tides will still ebb & flow, the seasons change & whoever wins the election the Government will still get in.

So don't worry. Be happy.

Red Eric

I wasn't saying he's the only liar in town - and yes, May is completely untrustworthy, which presumably adds to her lustre for those inclined towards post-truth politics.

mfesharne

ALL politicians lie & ALL politics are & have always been post truth...... I'm in my 60s and can't remember any politicians ever doing anywhere near all they promised.

To expect otherwise is extremely naive.

Like May or loathe her or like Brexit or loathe it, we have to live with the situation as it is because that's democracy but that said, I personally think May has made a lot of mistakes but prefer her to the Corbyn alternative.

Red Eric

There are some who don't lie. Oft-times they're reputed to have done because headline writers tend not to reflect accurately what has actually been uttered - but there are politicians who are absolutely trustworthy and very careful about what they choose to say.

mfesharne

Name 3.

There are 650 MPs in the HoC so you have plenty to choose from.

mfesharne

The most principled MP I can think of right now is Corbyn (though I don't agree with his politics) but even he had a sudden change of mind on the Brexit issue & didn't hesitate to shaft his own colleagues when he felt the time was right.

As I see it, one of the major issues is our politicians are all professional politicians nowadays. They all go into the business of politics for their own benefit rather than to better the lot of the electorate & none from any party can ever be trusted.

Good examples are how Milliband shafted his brother who would have made a far better leader & how Kinnock was so anti EU for so long until he & his wife were offered beneficial positions within it which promptly caused him to change his mind entirely.

We're now in a position where many people feel compelled to vote for who they trust to lie the least.

macliam

Hindsight is 20/20, eh? Opinions are not fact - perhaps it is better to bear that in mind. There have been opinions given on both sides regarding the legality of the war - but there has not been a legal ruling, otherwise an international case would have been filed. What would actually have made it legal? A rubber stamp from the UN that failed so miserably in the Balkans? I believe the war was an error and that (as usual) dark forces were at work. However, I also remember the events leading up to it, Saddam's refusal to abide by earlier UN declarations, the targeting of allied planes enforcing the no-fly zone, the cat-and-mouse with the UN investigators, the attacks on the marsh arabs.... and the political games being played in the UN (as now) to forestall any real decisions.

That the episode ended badly is self-evident. Few wars end well, there was no real plan for "afterwards" and the Iraq war played into the growing Saudi-backed extremism which seeks to undo the borders imposed on the middle east by the European powers after WW1 and extend it's influence worldwide. However, it was not the prime causation for later events, it was just one factor that prepared the ground.

Regarding the other issues - not relevant? You do know that it was the Maastricht treaty that created the EU and committed it to "ever closer union",do you? That union that has now divided the nation so well.... Brown sold off the gold reserves at a time when many other countries were doing so - and at a competitive rate for the time - only the later increase in the gold price makes it look cheap (again 20/20) and he did not single-handedly damage the economy in the way that Lamont's withdrawal from ERM did. No politician is blameless - but I think you conflate his actions with the worldwide meltdown caused by the US banks - and he was actually lauded by other finance ministers for his handling of that catastrophe. I didn't like the man, but I'll not wear blinkers because of that.

Oh and "a very significant percentage of the British electorate " would recall that Thatcher was "Maggie", not "Maggy" - as in "Maggie, Maggie, Maggie. Out, out, out!". Her policies of building reliance on the service sector at the cost of the industrial base of the UK has left it in thrall to the banks and the city. But that's not relevant..... is it?

You will believe what you want to believe - and many others may also choose to be selective in their memories - but I'll stick with the facts.

mfesharne

Even Chilcott acknowledged that Bliar had lied & there's plenty of proof the was was illegal and the story in the media just a few days ago suggested the AG had blocked Bliar being prosecuted & that a private prosecution may well be in the offing so I personally think there's no doubt about that particular issue....... Though I doubt the private prosecution will be allowed to happen......... but again, it's undeniable that a significant percentage of the electorate would like to see such prosecution.

Yes, I do know about the MT & I was rabidly against it at the time........ and would have been even more rabidly against it if I knew what the EU was going to morph into.

Brown announced he was going to sell the gold at the time when it was at an all time low & by announcing it beforehand he caused the price to fall even further........ it was nothing short of sheer bloody insanity.

I well remember the marches & slogans of Maggy, Maggy, Maggy, Out, Out, Out & in fact used those words myself during the time of the miner's strike & I whilst I now appreciate she had to do something about the situation, I still don't agree with how she did it...... but despite that, something had to be done & she did eventually do just that.

macliam

Facts, facts, not hindsight or opinion. The suggested prosecution was specifically not for war crimes or starting an illegal war, but for "aggression"- a crime under the UN charter, but that does not exist in UK law. Hence the decision by the AG to block the case (as is his right). It is one of many cases where such a decision is made, but has certain people foaming at the mouth......

However, it's difficult to see how they support a case brought by Gen Abdul-Wahid Shannan ar-Ribat - former chief of staff of the Iraqi army - who was probably too busy murdering his own countrymen at the time of the invasion to know what was happening in the UK.

So, in fact, there is still considerable doubt about the issue - just opinions trotted out to suit the occasion.

mfesharne

And as I pointed out earlier, I'm only expressing my personal opinion......... which remains unchanged.