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Old Jul 25th 2017, 2:52 pm   #1
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Default 2019 - UK EXITS OPEN SKIES AGREEMENT

I thought I’d start this early, as after March 2019 it seems that air-travelling BE’s who need to visit home may well be impacted, and there didn’t seem to be a thread dedicated to it…….
Many of us will already know that the 2007 Agreement between Europe and the USA allows any airline registered in the EU or America to fly to and from any location within the European Union, as well as operate flights to and from America. In the event that the UK discontinues the Agreement there’d be limited flights (if any) from UK registered carriers into Europe and minimal transatlantic flights to or from the UK.
From what I can make out, currently, there appear to be three potential outcomes -
1. The UK negotiates a transitional deal for a fixed period.
2. The UK is granted access like Norway or Sweden to the Single Aviation Market which would mean membership of the European Common Aviation Area (ECAA).
3. “No deal is better than a bad deal” prevails, and we start travelling via NI and Eire (UK Exit Fees in $, € or gold only please) at the frontier, or we just blow-up our rubber dinghy’s & paddle across the Channel to hire a car in Calais. (and we just know who’ll own the car hire businesses don’t we).

IMO, No. 2 is currently the most probable; - after all No.1 relies on any transition have a definite point of final status over travel, which isn’t possible at the moment. No.3… I don’t want to even think or dream about it. Normal people would consider that a Govt. that’s pledged the interests of it’s tax-slaves as its top- priority couldn’t be that stupid (but then I recall the Proportional Voting Referendum and Police & Crime Commissioners, and I feel very queasy & begin to sweat).

Yes, this will be a bit of a ‘slow-burner’ but it would be particularly valuable & interesting to hear from anyone in the airline industry- even on a proxy-by-members basis, The practical impacts could be huge. One thing is certain fellow BEs, whichever way this goes, make sure you’ve got a very, very full wallet OK? Incidentally, a close-reading of the Agreement seems to exclude restrictions on diplomatic, heads of state, and governmental missions…. I wonder if that’s how our Social Superiors & Betters have decided to grant us smelly-working-class-peons (?pee-upons) our futures….
Oh yes, a house-keeping thing… (claps hands) … CHILDREN! …. CHILDREN!!! …Thank you. This is an adults thread - OK? You already have your own big-play-pen under Post EU Referendum where you can throw your toys around & proudly display the varied contents of your nappies. Neither need it become a Free-Movement political knock-about tirade - there’s other places for that. But sticking to the practicalities of end-of-free-skies, and as things develop its impacts, perhaps we’ll learn enough, early enough, to try and mitigate the impact.
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Old Jul 25th 2017, 3:59 pm   #2
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Default Re: 2019 - UK EXITS OPEN SKIES AGREEMENT

At a cost to Easyjet they have paid a reported 12,000,000 pounds to be registered in Austria as a new company so they can carry on flying in the EU see link below.

Peter

EasyJet picks Austrian base for post-Brexit plan - BBC News
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Old Jul 25th 2017, 4:53 pm   #3
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Default Re: 2019 - UK EXITS OPEN SKIES AGREEMENT

Interesting but can you expect the southern european nations along with Greece and france accepting it when it means that they will take a big hit with holiday makers.

Also, that great europhile paddy O'leary who supports the eu (yes in small letters) so much he only buys aircraft built in the USA.

I am also sure that the USA would have something to say about it with all the Brits that visit.

Yes, I did vote to leave and even more now want it to happen quickly.
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Old Jul 26th 2017, 5:42 am   #4
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Default Re: 2019 - UK EXITS OPEN SKIES AGREEMENT

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Originally Posted by 1711JohnB View Post
Interesting but can you expect the southern european nations along with Greece and france accepting it when it means that they will take a big hit with holiday makers.

Also, that great europhile paddy O'leary who supports the eu (yes in small letters) so much he only buys aircraft built in the USA.

I am also sure that the USA would have something to say about it with all the Brits that visit.

Yes, I did vote to leave and even more now want it to happen quickly.
Well, there is a whole big world of tourists outside the EU! Europe will replace British tourists easily with Indian and Chinese. Imagine India with hundreds of millions of people from the middle class with money! What is 60 million British with their declining pound compared to that?
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Old Aug 15th 2017, 5:50 pm   #5
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Default Re: 2019 - UK EXITS OPEN SKIES AGREEMENT

I see Air Berlin has filed for insolvency today - though for now flights continue. Looking at their routes, a fair number served the UK.
While their problems seem to be more about financial confidence than our subject, this might be an early straw in the wind.
If corporate investors think there's little prospect of healthy returns in an over-supplied market, come 2019, I wonder who else will be in difficulty?
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Old Aug 15th 2017, 6:16 pm   #6
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Default Re: 2019 - UK EXITS OPEN SKIES AGREEMENT

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Originally Posted by 007Steve View Post
I see Air Berlin has filed for insolvency today - though for now flights continue. Looking at their routes, a fair number served the UK.
While their problems seem to be more about financial confidence than our subject, this might be an early straw in the wind.
If corporate investors think there's little prospect of healthy returns in an over-supplied market, come 2019, I wonder who else will be in difficulty?
Airlines like EJ and Lufthansa are queuing up to cherry pick the assets of Air Beelin.

When EJ and Ryan air can make very healthy profits AIR Berlin made huge losses which points to management issues rather than market conditions..

Last edited by EMR; Aug 15th 2017 at 6:22 pm.
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Old Aug 16th 2017, 2:36 pm   #7
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Default Re: 2019 - UK EXITS OPEN SKIES AGREEMENT

watched a programme last night on Heathrow. OHMYGOD.. Do we HAVE to travel this way? Bring back the ocean going liners..So it takes a week to get to Portugal I'M GAME...

Once you have seen an air india ground stewardess struggle with EIGHTEEN overstuffed suitcases from one family (cos they don't like to wash their clothes in the water over there.it turns then funny) Or watched a poor Sikh man struggle to assemble his 12 family members through customs ,and find the official to claim his 500 pounds of VAT back,only to be hauled back himself because he had a 'strange bulge' in his body. Nothing there but fat. He crying his eyes out,MIL in wheelchair.He doesn't get VAT and they catch plane as the doors close. He had queued for 4 hrs through customs .
I frankly don't care if we can't fly back to the UK..If this is the future its hell.
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Old Aug 16th 2017, 4:26 pm   #8
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Default Re: 2019 - UK EXITS OPEN SKIES AGREEMENT

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Originally Posted by 007Steve View Post
I see Air Berlin has filed for insolvency today - though for now flights continue. Looking at their routes, a fair number served the UK.
While their problems seem to be more about financial confidence than our subject, this might be an early straw in the wind.
If corporate investors think there's little prospect of healthy returns in an over-supplied market, come 2019, I wonder who else will be in difficulty?
WOW.... this is going to hit some air lines hard BUT then the other smarter ones will be miles ahead of the game and no alot more than what we see...
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Old Aug 16th 2017, 4:27 pm   #9
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Default Re: 2019 - UK EXITS OPEN SKIES AGREEMENT

Trouble is, GeniB, the UK authorities will just turn the liner terminals into hell, just like the airports!
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Old Aug 17th 2017, 9:18 am   #10
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Default Re: 2019 - UK EXITS OPEN SKIES AGREEMENT

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Trouble is, GeniB, the UK authorities will just turn the liner terminals into hell, just like the airports!
I know ,I'm just panickjing.My ED is coming through Heathrow at the end of the month . I am visualising her being processed like a sardine.
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Old Aug 17th 2017, 12:14 pm   #11
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Default Re: 2019 - UK EXITS OPEN SKIES AGREEMENT

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Well, there is a whole big world of tourists outside the EU! Europe will replace British tourists easily with Indian and Chinese. Imagine India with hundreds of millions of people from the middle class with money! What is 60 million British with their declining pound compared to that?
Very funny, the indians have huge expat numbers in the uk, family visits are a big industry, its only recently that they were allowed to not fly air india, and the chinese dont do european beach holidays, they build their own resorts for that, very much into keeping it in the family, here in the caribbean they biuld entire resorts for chinese use, never advertised outside their own countries. Im sure youll still see busses of them visiting the cultural cities as now, but dont rely on that, you know they built their own disneyland version of europe, hilarious, theres a british pub that sells bottled tsing tao and cocktails.

Im guessing there may be more antipodean accents in our pubs and restaurants, less eastern europe.
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Old Aug 17th 2017, 12:22 pm   #12
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Default Re: 2019 - UK EXITS OPEN SKIES AGREEMENT

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Very funny, the indians have huge expat numbers in the uk, family visits are a big industry, its only recently that they were allowed to not fly air india, and the chinese dont do european beach holidays, they build their own resorts for that, very much into keeping it in the family, here in the caribbean they biuld entire resorts for chinese use, never advertised outside their own countries. Im sure youll still see busses of them visiting the cultural cities as now, but dont rely on that, you know they built their own disneyland version of europe, hilarious, theres a british pub that sells bottled tsing tao and cocktails.

Im guessing there may be more antipodean accents in our pubs and restaurants, less eastern europe.
Regarding the Chinese and Europe the word to use is " yet "..
Indians have flown on other airlines for decades..
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Old Aug 17th 2017, 12:23 pm   #13
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Im guessing there may be more antipodean accents in our pubs and restaurants, less eastern europe.
I guess you see that as a benefit.
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Old Aug 17th 2017, 12:30 pm   #14
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I guess you see that as a benefit.
Not really, possibly easier to understand sometimes, more fern patterns in starbucks lattes? just a prediction.

There was a NZ restaurant in ealing in london, closed a few years back, would love to have another, some of their stuff was good.
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Old Aug 17th 2017, 12:39 pm   #15
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Default Re: 2019 - UK EXITS OPEN SKIES AGREEMENT

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Regarding the Chinese and Europe the word to use is " yet "..
Indians have flown on other airlines for decades..
Thats interesting, around 2014 i had an employee whose mother wasnt allowed to take a flight from hyderabad to london via dubai with emirates, [how i usually did it] had to leave india via delhi, i knew the old restriction which people were always complaining about [the price i think mainly] and assumed it still applied.
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