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Old Sep 1st 2017, 11:46 am   #16
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Default Re: Further Education in the Philippines

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Originally Posted by mikek1 View Post
I have been amazed at the queues at the check outs in Robinsons and CSI. The strange thing is there are unmanned checkouts, why don't they recruit some of the gossiping individuals to man these vacant checkouts.
Realizing that these monumental queues are caused by sari sari owners stocking up with countless low priced items , why don't the degree educated management have a totally separate payment, checkout arrangement for them?
.....
I think they don't want to spend money and management time on training up for and properly managing check out operations as customers, with the exception of us inpatient Expats, are happy to docilely wait in line for ages, using the time to have a chat, do a bit more shopping, play with their phones etc
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Old Sep 1st 2017, 12:09 pm   #17
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My wife took a degree in business management at Silliman, she said the first year was entirely taken up on teaching basics to catch up on the various abilities or lacking of of the new student intake and basically getting all of their duck in a row.
This year I have been helping a friends kid with his maths for his Engineering Degree, I was horrified to find out that in 11 or 12 years of school learning maths he had never come across Algebra, Calculus or Trigonometry. From what I understand his teacher said that for most people they would be of no use in life so they would not be taught it ( my guess is that teacher could not teach what he did not understand ). He is now 18 and I am teaching him maths that I was taught when I was 12. He is already looking to go overseas ( pass or fail ) working as a houseboy.

The education system here seems to have gone terribly wrong somewhere.
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Old Sep 1st 2017, 1:21 pm   #18
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Default Re: Further Education in the Philippines

Our eldest daughters boyfriend is a newly qualified teach for elementary school, a nice young man, but I would not let him teach any children as he really hasn't a clue. I would say that at 23 years old, with his teaching degree, his knowledge is below an average UK 16 year old. I have grown up 'children' in the UK and my grandchildren are currently doing 'A' levels, 'AS' levels and GCSE's and they are way ahead of anything here by a country mile.
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Old Sep 2nd 2017, 12:14 am   #19
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I mentioned that the average IQ is 86 for Filipinos and I read that this could be due to the arsenic traces contained in rice. Not enough arsenic to kill but if eaten in prodigious quantities it can have an adverse effect on the brain over generations. Not sure if that is true bearing in mind the highest average IQ can be found in Hong Kong which if I remember correctly is 108.

I have a couple of foreigner friends here who have businesses and my observations confirm what has been stated thus far. They seem to get through an endless amount of staff because the locally employed do not seem to be able to carry out simple instructions or use their initiative. They are constantly having to be monitored and reminded of their duties. I am told the Filipinos do not like this and leave. The foreigner is too strict apparently.

As has been mentioned, in shops and stores they are generally over-manned. I am told this is to allow more people to put food on the table. With "contractualisation" and poor wages I can understand their NFI attitude. Yes, I know contractualisation has been outlawed now but will take time to take full effect.

Hopefully, when contractualisation is finally eradicated, the workers will be able to have a career structure and job security. At the moment they don't which perhaps is the reason for their apathy and lack of initiative.

Regards

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Old Sep 2nd 2017, 2:06 am   #20
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Default Re: Further Education in the Philippines

We're drifting away from the OPs original question, but it's an interesting drift, it's a wet 3 day weekend where I am with just some televised football to look forward to.

Been looking around on this arsenic/IQ issue, there's quite a lot of discussion. It seems established that heavy childhood exposure does have a significant effect on their IQ scores, but I don't see anywhere anyone writing about a mechanism that would pass this on to future generations. Some argue that IQ is determined greatly by genes, especially the Mother's, but that is hotly disputed. I can see nothing about whether genes could be damaged by any long term exposure to arsenic.In any case the exposure is likely to be small. Like Pete says, one can point to the higher IQs of other Asian rice eating dominated countries.

Digressing even further there are worrying links with Alzheimer's. As life expectancy improves here that may need to be studied. Also, some are pointing out the prevalence of lead in the water in some areas eg the Visayas and its possible local effects on IQ.

So the 86 score here is probably related to developmental factors.Plenty to look at there, human resources,natural resources,capital resources and social/political factors. But the Philippines was a Spanish colony for many years and is now the only predominantly Roman Catholic country in Asia. Spain also colonised many countries in Central and Latin America, who have also done poorly. Studies find that those countries colonised by Protestant countries have done much better. They claim to have allowed for other factors. If they did do that properly, was it the effect of the Spanish institutions eg Roman Law, the religion or a combination of both? Or simply that the Protestant countries were exceptionally good?

Then came the US. From which the Philippines got its democratic institutions, some law, educational system and many cultural influences. And crucially, in an agricultural economy, the US apparently allowed the elites to hold on to and expand their land holdings.

The same international IQ studies that have the Philippines at 86 give the USA at 98.
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Old Sep 2nd 2017, 2:34 pm   #21
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Default Re: Further Education in the Philippines

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I mentioned that the average IQ is 86 for Filipinos and I read that this could be due to the arsenic traces contained in rice. Not enough arsenic to kill but if eaten in prodigious quantities it can have an adverse effect on the brain over generations. Not sure if that is true bearing in mind the highest average IQ can be found in Hong Kong which if I remember correctly is 108.
I think the low IQ is more likely due to malnutrition that causes stunted growth, not only in height but also in brain development. Looking at an IQ table, they had 7 out of the top 10 as Asian countries, all of whom eat lots of rice and the arsenic problem is not just a Philippine problem, it ranges from India to Japan.
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Old Sep 2nd 2017, 4:07 pm   #22
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Default Re: Further Education in the Philippines

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Our eldest daughters boyfriend is a newly qualified teach for elementary school, a nice young man, but I would not let him teach any children as he really hasn't a clue. I would say that at 23 years old, with his teaching degree, his knowledge is below an average UK 16 year old. I have grown up 'children' in the UK and my grandchildren are currently doing 'A' levels, 'AS' levels and GCSE's and they are way ahead of anything here by a country mile.
The BBC interviewed the boss of a major call center company a few years ago and they claimed that they only recruited the brightest university students to work in her company and after 6 months training on how to answer a phone they could earn a high wage. Followed up by another company that claimed they employed top university graduates ( lawyers, teachers, engineers etc ) and after 3 months of training they were sent oversea to work as house boys/girls.

So seemingly after call centers and OFW toilet cleaners have secured the best brains in the country the remainder are left to run the Philippines.

An expat friend has been asked for 2 chickens at a PTA meeting to improve his daughters marks. That seems like a pig could get one a degree with first class honors.
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Old Sep 2nd 2017, 11:59 pm   #23
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Default Re: Further Education in the Philippines

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I think the low IQ is more likely due to malnutrition that causes stunted growth, not only in height but also in brain development. Looking at an IQ table, they had 7 out of the top 10 as Asian countries, all of whom eat lots of rice and the arsenic problem is not just a Philippine problem, it ranges from India to Japan.
I thought we had already completely discounted the arsenic explanation, but malnutrition is definitely a factor here. Apart from the poor I also wonder about the diet of the many other young people, many of whom seem to exist on fast food on a daily basis, no vegetables, mothers often bringing take outs home after school.

Malnutrition pulls down Philippines' ‘End of Childhood’ rank to 96th | Headlines, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com

Notice that Vietnam is doing much better on child malnutrition. Why? Partly because they have expressly targeted the problem. Communist countries can more easily do that sort of targeting. Cuba also showed what could be done with health.

But the Philippines has a significantly bigger economy than Vietnam, so more resources could be allocated to this, if made available through taxation and if there was political will. The problem being made worse for the Philippines as it has 5% more of its 10m greater population below the poverty line. And its population is growing 50% faster too.

Vietnam has an economic growth rate just slightly lower than the Philippine's, so its health programs are not damaging the economy.

Malnutrition is a feature of under development, and if it does affect IQ it will make progress in development harder. Some factors affecting development now cannot be changed, others can eg some are proposing the Philippines needs to change its constitution and make a move to federalism, claiming that will assist development.

But I think we have to avoid awarding the OBE here, OBE meaning the One Big Explanation.
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Old Sep 3rd 2017, 12:53 am   #24
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Default Re: Further Education in the Philippines

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The BBC interviewed the boss of a major call center company a few years ago and they claimed that they only recruited the brightest university students to work in her company and after 6 months training on how to answer a phone they could earn a high wage. Followed up by another company that claimed they employed top university graduates ( lawyers, teachers, engineers etc ) and after 3 months of training they were sent oversea to work as house boys/girls.

So seemingly after call centers and OFW toilet cleaners have secured the best brains in the country the remainder are left to run the Philippines.

An expat friend has been asked for 2 chickens at a PTA meeting to improve his daughters marks. That seems like a pig could get one a degree with first class honors.
We bought two replacement ceiling fans for our daughters classroom following a pleading letter signed by all the class members, individually, and teacher. It was quite shocking as even 'God' was mentioned in our 'reward'. I asked for a receipt and photo of the fans when installed, which I received. We also spent several hours hearing about the school rules, at a meeting, then spending a further hour electing the members of the PTA who then never met throughout the entire academic year, totally pointless and waste of time.
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Old Sep 3rd 2017, 3:28 am   #25
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Default Re: Further Education in the Philippines

http://www.adb.org/countries/philippines/poverty

I greatly understated Philippine poverty in my previous post...I knew it was bad but didn't realise it was this bad. Third highest percentage in ASEAN under the National Poverty Line. Only Laos and Myanmar doing worse. We're talking here of under around PhP100 a day. Even PhP200 must be a struggle.

You hear a lot about record GDP growth, but not about poverty. Politicians busy with more pressing issues or maybe some embarrassment?

There are poverty reduction policies being implemented by the government but the large and fast growing population in poverty means they will do well to maintain the present levels.Some expenditure on areas like education and training may even be wasted if people are too poor to take advantage of them.
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Old Sep 3rd 2017, 5:49 am   #26
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We live in a fishing village of around 2,500 people, including the locality and we ourselves own an outrigger fishing boat which we loan to a member of my wife's family in return for fresh fish when we need it. This past month the average catch has been sold for around P400 per day but fish only caught for 4 out of 6 days fishing, so a weeks total of around P1,600. Out of that is paid the 'mate'plus fuel and maintenance. The fishing/boat licence is only P200/year. Obviously not every family in the village has a boat so several families will run a boat thus the P1,600 may have to be split between 3 or 4 families. We live on a huge sandbar surrounded by factory fishponds so growing vegetables/rice isn't possible and have to be purchased. The diet is small dried fish and the bit of the catch that can't be sold with rice and vegetables occasionally. Life is tough.
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Old Sep 3rd 2017, 11:13 am   #27
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We live in a fishing village of around 2,500 people.... several families will run a boat thus the P1,600 may have to be split between 3 or 4 families. We live on a huge sandbar surrounded by factory fishponds so growing vegetables/rice isn't possible and have to be purchased. The diet is small dried fish and the bit of the catch that can't be sold with rice and vegetables occasionally. Life is tough.
The further you go from Manila, especially to the South, the tougher it gets. One other source of income here is OFW remittances from over 2m OFWs. Added to help from the large Filipino diaspora they can assist some families to eg educate their children. But nearly half of OFWs come from Luzon, with two thirds of those coming from Manila and surrounding provinces.

The Philippines is one of the top receivers of remittances in the world and top of the ASEAN league table. Interestingly, Vietnam is not far behind.

OFWs are seen as national heroes and the government looks after them, because without their contribution to the economy and household incomes things would be even worse here.

But,with the country losing many of its best workers for years what does this exodus do for long term development? It may even have a negative impact. Just a few politicians here have raised that question, but most continue to view OFWs as simply a lucrative export.
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Old Sep 3rd 2017, 3:03 pm   #28
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Yes, the OFW phenomenon, Human trafficking by the government of its own people, 10 million plus. One of the key identifiers of a trafficked person is that they are bought and sold for economic gain.....unless of course you are the government!!

The income coming back funds education for many who would not get any help.
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Old Sep 3rd 2017, 3:51 pm   #29
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My points for money scheme has hit a problem. Today one lad gave me his 'end of term card' with worse marks than last term, via the missus, I asked why he got a lot lower marks than last term. His reply was that they had to do a project but he could not afford the P25 for the project so he was marked down, hence the lower marks. So the idea of free education goes out the window. Looks like I shall end up sponsoring a few projects as well, great this free education for all law.
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 3:38 am   #30
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Default Re: Further Education in the Philippines

We've just returned from a 40 minute meeting with the 'Senior High School Coordinator'. What a thoroughly depressing experience. I have never met with such a negative attitude and defeatist outlook. Creativity is an unknown concept whilst thinking within a box, within a welded container is seen as 'normal'. Very, very depressing indeed. Every question is met with a reason why it cannot be done, well rehearsed excuses abound. Apparently spending lots of time on 'dance practice' is seen as good for 17 & 18 year old students in their final, critical, year of education. Passing on information about further education or career advice to students or parents is not seen as the responsibility of the high school, basically you're on your own, despite the school espousing being the 'education experts'. I went in with very low expectations and even those where not met. It has been a very, very disappointing experience. As a contributor has mentioned previously perhaps starting a micro-business for them is the answer rather than waste money on higher education which is mainly of such an incredibly low standard.
A huge thanks to everyone that has commented, very greatly appreciated.
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