Genesis

Cheers for the offer!!

Charismatic

Richard Prebble was right, we still seem bent on fulfilling our destiny as the Poland of the South Pacific at any cost. That said I will continue to vote even if it’s akin to choosing the lesser of two evils.

Assanah

I will move to NZ in April. Could you please explain what you mean. What is it that is so bad about NZ?

Genesis

As a country I like the place. But things within the country are allowed to prevail that should not. Double murderers being allowed parole arvo 20 years. Gangs being allowed to flourish..we have loads of them. They are up to no good. The PM personally saying 'nz is not ready for a drop in alcohol levels re driving'. The terrible, terrible road death ststs, the awful stats re child deaths, toothless laws, prisons full, crap tax sysstem that allows people tax breaks where they should get none (ie rentals/landlords). The govt said it would go hard on law and order last afore being voted in..yeah right. Stupidly high currency yet the resrve bank will not step in..it could. A system that allowed me to lose $80k in a finance house melt down, others lost way more together we have all lost about $5 billion. Again the govt COULD have stepped in..it did not. The list goes on. In many ways I sometimes wonder why I am here. I admit I am content here as I can and do dodge most of the above and we have a very high standard of living. But the latter is mainly due to what we bought in to the country 5 years ago. Oh yes and we have a very, very low wage economy and by comparison very expensive housing. Apart from all tyhat its cool.

UKNZAUS

I have a 'love-hate' relationship with NZ. I love it on gorgeous hot days when I can take my kids to the beach/park/wherever and not be frightened for our safety, but then as a family of 5, it is blooming expensive to travel around NZ. The houses (not my current one, but previous ones) have been freezing cold and have had the most damp I have ever seen. My walls poured with water on the inside when it rained, and the landlords response... "She'll be right when it stops raining!". My daughter now has asthma, and I have to pay to have her checked out for my troubles of moving to NZ.

Not all, but the majority of Kiwi's, are rude and ignorant people and not very friendly at all... unless they're taking your money! I only have a couple of Kiwi friends after 3 and a half years being here, the rest are too highly strung for me to want to associate with.

I had to re-train as a teacher because I was told there was a mass shortage of teachers in NZ, and my qualifications were not "up to NZ standards". It has cost me thousands of $$$ and I really don't want to be here anymore. It's all money, money, money, and I have nothing to show for it!!

As soon as we can go (kids schooling/timing), we're off!

scubadoo

Yes we agree with most of this -
a) We came to fill an immediate skills shortage; there isn't one and I can't get interviews for the few jobs there are (Jobs for the boys). It is very anti-English. NZ has a huge chip on its shoulder about England and the English. It is not blatantly open racism but it is very definately there.
b) Low cost of living - No it is the second highest in the world behind Australia.
c) Better work/life balance - No you work longer hours with half the annual leave and practically no sick leave. Employers treat employee's like crap and the system is so weak that they get away with it.
d) Affordable housing - No it aint, salaries are so low and living cost so high that housing is not afordable. In addition most kiwis live in conditions Brits would consider third world, literally!
e) Low crime rate - No it is actually quite high and rising, gangs and black power gangs are prevelent and allowed free reign in NZ. All sorts of crime are actually very high considering the population size. I was born in Manchester and lived in Oxford for several years. Crime in NZ has more in common with Manchester than Oxford. People in Dunedin have stopped going into town on weekend evenings because of the gangs of kids hooning around attacking people
f) Other facts - NZ has the highest rates of child poverty, child abuse, family violence, depression, respiratory illness in the civilized world.
g) Massive 'boy racer' culture - idiots in old wrecks hoon around attacking and terrifying people with exhausts like megaphones. Gangs of hundreds gather and attack the Police. They have targetted numerous private addresses for months at a time. Hospitals in Christchurch have had to move patients away from the road side of the building. Kids of 15 years old drive around legally in NZ, there is no requirement for insurance and the cars are ancient wrecks. Most school kids drive to school. Traffic is bad in Dunedin for its size, worse elsewhere in NZ and parking a nightmare.
h) Clean and green - No it is not. The WHO report stated that if everybody in the world lived like the average kiwi then we would need 3.5 planets to support us. Cars that should have been crushed decades ago are still driven in NZ and NZ has virtually no emission tests for vehicles. The fleet of vehicles on the road is the oldest in the civilized world. Dunedin frequently fails international standards for air quality
i) NZ has frighteningly high road toll - the driving is very selfish and totally inconsiderate. The driving ability is low and they drive like idiots, and die a lot!

These are just some of the facts about NZ. It isn't all bad and you experience variable degrees of some things depending where you live. But it is there and you need to remeber that. DO NOT THINK OF NZ AS A FIRST WORLD COUNTRY - IT IS NOT! Some kiwis have admitted this to us on occassion but most won't. NZ is closer to third world.

We also agree the many kiwis are rude and ignorant, partly because they are anti-English, partly because it is the culture (Or lack of). Bearing all this in mind I don't want my son growing up as a kiwi! The education system is very weak too, way behind the UK (Depending where you go). An NZ first class BSc(Hons) is equivalent to a third class or 2ii BSc(Hons) in England. This has been confirmed by numerous migrant senior lecturers at the Uni.

Just a bit of info for thought and further research.

Genesis

I agree with some of your points but the one about being anti english? Never have I felt more at home here. Okay kiwis are an odd bunch (probably why I like it here) but I have never ever felt any anti english stance at all. They are very hard to get to know and alas I have few good kiwi friends..and that is not for the want of trying!!!! I am very gregarious but its hard to get to know kiwis on any level other than a peripheral one. The respiritory issue must be down to damp homes. I cannot believe how damp they allow them to get. There is stuff you can do to stop it (and I don't mean moving out) but they don't bother.

Charismatic

I think it’s important to not this is not true of all professions, the ones which get stripped via Australia are in demand (Pretty much anything to do with exploiting minerals or industrial processes). I’m never too surprised by the prejudice faced by people moving here (it’s not exclusively confined to English people IMO and in fact we have it easy compared to others) as to an extent it’s true of almost any country that hasn’t yet developed.

scubadoo

Yes the respiratory problems are mostly due to cold, damp, mouldy houses. But given how much it costs for building materials in NZ (Yet another monopoly!), I can see why nobody bothers.
And then there is the Council - Leave it damp, decaying and falling down, no problems. But try and fix it then you have to fill out forms in triplicate, pay the Council a ton of money, then get different responses from the building dept, then have to change what you have done because the next building inspector disagrees with the first etc etc!! Who owns the house and pays the mortgage??
All this and then the agents and valuers tell you it is worth $2 more than it was!! House prices are very controlled here, in Dunedin at least,the boys club holds up some areas to protect their portfolio.
We have not had this kind of problem to such a degree but most people do!

Flower Pot

Just another slant on it...

I understand its not for some people, and think its harder for families but in my opinion it is what you make it... if it isn't working out in a particular part of NZ, why not move and try another?!

We have been here almost 5 months now and love it. We both have jobs (my husband was unemployed in the UK for a yr and a half before we came out due to the recession with the trades).

I am not in my ideal job and my wages are lower than the UK but I am thankful to be employed and only have a 25 min commute too and from work. I am also still keeping an eye out for jobs more in my field (pharmaceutical lab analyst) and am hopeful something will come up in the future. I have a meeting with a scientific supplies company next week so !

Yes some things are more expensive but some things are a lot cheaper than the UK, I find it averages out, we pay our rent and bills and have some money left over to do weekend trips and also save towards a house deposit for the future.

I know we may still be in the 'honeymoon' period and that things can always go wrong, but I like to stay positive and when I go out onto my deck and look out over the ocean - its my paradise

We are fortunate to have family here and have made some good friends already, it wasnt easy though, miss people we left behind loads but sometimes you just have to put yourself out there!

I dont notice much crime or hoons where we live... not to say it doesnt exist but coming from Liverpool, this place is a haven!! Our rental does not suffer from damp and we have a great landlord (yes we may be lucky but there are decent homes out there).

Anyway, good luck those heading back to the UK (you'll need it unless you're rather wealthy, with Cameron doing a royal job of bleeping the working class over already )... and also to those on their way out

Budawang

$50K NZ seems extremely low for a research scientist. That's close to the minimum wage here in Oz (think stacking shelves in the supermarket). There's quite a lot of research going on here in Canberra with the ANU and CSIRO. Average full time wage in Canberra would be around $95K NZ and research scientists would probably get more than that.

The Jezzers

Flower pot your reply is so true.
I love New Zealand. I have 6 children and I love the schools here. Everything depends on the place you chose to live. I don't see any crime and I let my children have the freedom that they would not get in the UK. Here they live as children, and not like mini adults. I have been here for just over a year and I can't think of a better place to live on the planet. The people I have met are so friendly even the kiwi's. My children have many friends from all over the world.
In the UK I could not walk the area at night and crime was high. The children were growing up to fast and missing out on being children.
New Zealand has worked for us and I think it is the best place in the world to live.
Life is what you make it.
Move if you think you must but I would never go back to the UK.

londonescapee

I try these days to avoid posting long and wildly inflammatory posts - but this one compelled me to reply. Sorry but I find the statements you've made full of sweeping generalisations that just aren't true. Particulary the 1st world bit really gets my goat. I'm not saying we should all wander around with huge burdends of guilt but (earthquakes aside) - do you have fresh drinking water? Do you have access to electricity? Do you have food on your plate every day? I suspect all those answers would be yes - so don't insult those millions who live in extreme poverty and would give their right arm and probably a lot more to have the life that you are so quick to scorn in New Zealand.

Absolutey NZ is not going to be for everyone and it is quite apparent that it isn't for your family, but this is the same in that the UK is not for everyone, Oz, Canada etc is not for everyone. I'd just ask people reading this to remember that it works out for thousands of people who move here every year and not to get too frightened by some of the things you read on forums - do your reserch yes but don't let it worry you as every experience is unique and on the main part, positive in some ways, even if ultimately you decide the country you have moved to isn't right for your needs.

I have found 99% of Kiwis hugely polite, helpful and friendly - much more so than I ever got in the UK. Customer service in shops is excellent. Driving is different but not massively so. People give way to me and let me out far more than I ever found in the UK. Idiots are on the road everywhere you live - NZ hardly has the monopoly. I feel for you if you ever move to America again because I find drivers there far, far worse.

Boy racers exist everywhere in the world - particularly in the UK. Go and sit in any city centre most evenings and then come back with that same comment again. Insurance is compulsory in the UK - but how many people really have it? We've been hit before by people who have no insurance.

I'd agree to a point that there are some racist elements to society here - but how does that make NZ worse than any other Western nation? There are still many parts of the UK that view outsiders with deep, dark suspicion and resentment. NZ has surprised me because so many people have spent time overseas before returning. I've found Auckland far more diverse than I was expecting - this is a big plus in my book. It's exactly the same as other countries and probably better here than some others that I've found. They are at least making some effort to reinstate Maori culture which is never going to be an easy job.

The universities here are ranked as some of the highest in the world with most being in the top 300 (and Auckland ranked 68th I think), oh and they are real universities rather than the junk you get from some of the ex-polys in the UK. Education standards....hearing from one of my friends in the UK who is a Reception teacher, they are (apparently) having to remove science from the curriculum because you have children coming into school who don't know how to read, write, dress themselves, use the toilet, and have American accents with all the tv they watch. And this is from a small school in Cornwall. Compared to central Auckland which has some of the best sports facilities I've seen and almost everywhere people are always out and about. It's so much easier for children to be active here than in the UK. I can't wait for them to arrive and grow up here.

As Flower Pot said, why didn't you try living somewhere else in NZ before writing it off completely? I wish you and your family luck with your move and hope it works out for you.

bourbon-biscuit

londonescapee- well done for a balanced and sensible post.

NZ a third world country? Clearly spoken by someone who has never actually been to one. Though it is interesting (and sad) to note just how stark the gap between poorest and wealthiest is in NZ, and it's growing.

There are many things that are frustrating and difficult about living here and anyone that knows me knows I swing from being in love with New Zealand, her landscape and particular ways to feeling deeply ambivalent about being here. I am also very fond of Australia, with the same mix of love-hate.

The gang problems, poverty and gang-related violence the poster above mentions, though real and disturbing are largely going on without the average expat being at all aware other than as a news item or statistic. Gangs are a part of life the world over but unless you're in one the chances of negative interactions with them are very remote.

The education here is excellent. Some people don't understand it because it IS different to the UK's brand of "tell 'em and test 'em" ... but the international rankings speak for themselves. Of course you'll get some posters who don't have a good experience (it's hard to make the right schooling choices when you don't know the area) and some who don't understand the system but generally the education is for us one of the biggest draw card.

Expat Kiwi

Scubado probably does, but there are people in New Zealand who don't. Have you taken the time to get out into the sticks and see the other side of life in New Zealand, some people really are doing it hard.

Go to some of the areas where unemployment is high and generations of families have been on benefits and see how many kids are going to school hungry each day, in bare feet and with nothing for lunch.

In its more affluent, developed areas New Zealand is very much first world but where poverty exists it's a very different story.

We should be thankful for what we have, so many are less fortunate. There is a very wide gap between the haves and the have nots in Aotearoa.

One in five children live in poverty in New Zealand.

If anyone feels like making a difference here's where to start http://www.cpag.org.nz/