"40% of MM2H participants prefer to settle down in Johor"

  • Found in today's newspaper: 40% of MM2H participants prefer to settle down in Johor - Nation | The Star Online

    Quote:
    JOHOR BARU: About 40% of the 34,531 foreigners who participated in the Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H) programme chose to settle down in Johor. Johor Tourism, Domestic Trade and Consumerism Committee chairman Datuk Tee Siew Kiong said the participants were from the 127 nations who have been approved under MM2H as of June. He said that most of the foreigners were from China, Japan, Bangladesh, the United Kingdom and Iran, and added that they preferred to settle in Johor Baru.
    ...
    Surprising, IMHO, as I thought that Kuala Lumpur and Penang were the preferred places to live.
  • Re: "40% of MM2H participants prefer to settle down in Johor"
    Interesting. I read somewhere that the vast majority are Chinese, younger, maybe unworldly, subjected to high-pressure selling tactics by developers, Chinese of course. From what I have seen (admittedly in media, not personally) the ongoing overdevelopment in Penang is going to pale into insignificance compared to Johor/Iskandar in a couple of years which will become real live/dead ghost town (more like mini-country) The economics of this business just don't make sense to me - you don't (or can't - the banks have a fondness for getting their money back at the end of the day) build (or make, manufacture, create, etc) anything you don't have a realistic prospect of selling. Is that the way capitalism works or have I been missing something for the past 40 years? Please don't ask my wife that question if you don't want a rude reply
  • Re: "40% of MM2H participants prefer to settle down in Johor"
    I agree with your classification of the development in Penang being "overdevelopment". But I think that it pales compared to the "Forest City" project in Johor.
  • Re: "40% of MM2H participants prefer to settle down in Johor"
    A new hotel has gone up recently in Gelang Patah.... quite big. There are always many coaches parked outside, and the nearby 7/11 is often packed with Chinese "tourists" (crikey they can be rude!!). Pretty sure they've all been flown over to be encouraged to buy-in here. The oversupply is astounding. Not just Forest City - tower blocks going up everywhere.... and no occupants! But so far the prices seem to be "stable'. Weird.
  • Re: "40% of MM2H participants prefer to settle down in Johor"
    Precisely my points, SushiFan & geedee. A ghost town in the making. I think at the beginning the Chinese wanted to impress the (Western) world how big & brash they could be, but now simple economics are tugging at the foundations of this logic & the edifice is starting to crumble with the Chinese financial authorities wielding the biggest sledgehammers. Watch this space
  • Re: "40% of MM2H participants prefer to settle down in Johor"
    Not so sure they wanted to impress anyone - maybe more of a desire to get their money out of China which led to booms in Vancouver, Australia and.... Johor. There are a lot of rich Chinese. let's face it, they make pretty much everything now. The Chinese government are now apparently cracking down on money leaving the country, so that may be why things have slowed down?
    Good job really because the cost of property here is just nuts.
    In some parts of China it would take the average worker 200 years to pay off the cost of an average property using 50% of his take home income.
    What a crazy world we live in.
  • Re: "40% of MM2H participants prefer to settle down in Johor"
    Maybe not the buyers so much but I know from business experience in Australia Chinese developers certainly like to "bang their drum", often paying 2-3 times for sites what a local developer might pay. The crackdown is more affecting the end buyers who have bought off-plan with 5% deposit or less, with increasing evidence of defaults on contracts where they can't raise the money for settlement - local banks won't touch them. Affordability? Sydney thinks its got it bad where the median house price is 10-12 times average wages, second only to Hong Kong (is this counted as China?)
  • Re: "40% of MM2H participants prefer to settle down in Johor"
    I have been waiting for the property crash to happen.....for over 10 years!!

    Talk about being wrong!
  • Re: "40% of MM2H participants prefer to settle down in Johor"
    Quote: Sydney thinks its got it bad where the median house price is 10-12 times average wages, second only to Hong Kong (is this counted as China?)
    No, totally different market. And Mainland Chinese usually cannot afford to buy anything in HK, there are also many restrictions. That is the thing, rich Chinese (unlimited supply) can buy property in Malaysia (and there place is Johor and not Penang, the place for Westeners), very rich can buy in Australia, but only very few ultra rich can buy in HK.

    I guess the reason why the Malaysian market not crashes as geedee and also I have expected, there is probably 5 Million more Chinese you want to have a condo in Malaysia, if Chinese governments policy gets loose again on this (you never know).

    If this crazy expensive International School chains like Tenby or Fairview th Chinese love so much would be on the stock market, I would buy definetely a lot
  • Re: "40% of MM2H participants prefer to settle down in Johor"
    Quote: I have been waiting for the property crash to happen.....for over 10 years!!

    Talk about being wrong!
    I used to see a cartoon in many agents' windows of a crotchedy old man, stooped, walking stick, long grey beard, with the caption "This is a picture of the young man who waited for the price of real estate to come down" Haven't seen it for a while - hope it's not you!
  • Re: "40% of MM2H participants prefer to settle down in Johor"
    Quote: No, totally different market. And Mainland Chinese usually cannot afford to buy anything in HK, there are also many restrictions. That is the thing, rich Chinese (unlimited supply) can buy property in Malaysia (and there place is Johor and not Penang, the place for Westeners), very rich can buy in Australia, but only very few ultra rich can buy in HK.

    I guess the reason why the Malaysian market not crashes as geedee and also I have expected, there is probably 5 Million more Chinese you want to have a condo in Malaysia, if Chinese governments policy gets loose again on this (you never know).

    If this crazy expensive International School chains like Tenby or Fairview th Chinese love so much would be on the stock market, I would buy definetely a lot
    I still don't understand why the rich Chinese who want to get their money out don't just direct it to the US stock or bond market - extremely easy to get going, tax free gains for foreigners, highly liquid and efficient with far fewer scams. Real estate seems like a minefield by comparison and long term returns on real estate have historically lagged those of stocks by a wide margin.

    Maybe there is something appealing about being bogged down by a physical investment that I just don't get. (I can get having a house for living or consumption but to treat it as an investment just doesn't make sense to me - it is a large, undiversifiable, unhedgable, illiquid investment with historically low returns. Maybe I just have too much finance training.)
  • Re: "40% of MM2H participants prefer to settle down in Johor"
    Quote: I still don't understand why the rich Chinese who want to get their money out don't just direct it to the US stock or bond market - extremely easy to get going, tax free gains for foreigners, highly liquid and efficient with far fewer scams.
    They are certainly taxed on any gains made in the US Stock market. While the US would not tax the capital gains of a non-resident foreign investor, they would tax the dividends. And they would report the capital gains back to the home country...and I would think China would likely tax that income.
  • Re: "40% of MM2H participants prefer to settle down in Johor"
    Quote: I still don't understand why the rich Chinese who want to get their money out don't just direct it to the US stock or bond market - extremely easy to get going, tax free gains for foreigners, highly liquid and efficient with far fewer scams. Real estate seems like a minefield by comparison and long term returns on real estate have historically lagged those of stocks by a wide margin.

    Maybe there is something appealing about being bogged down by a physical investment that I just don't get. (I can get having a house for living or consumption but to treat it as an investment just doesn't make sense to me - it is a large, undiversifiable, unhedgable, illiquid investment with historically low returns. Maybe I just have too much finance training.)
    In my experience, for the most part it's down to the Chinese ingrained psyche - they just can't see the value of pieces of paper such as bonds or share certificates as anything more than just that - pieces of paper - & in a western capitalist, market-oriented society they have been right more than once in the past 90 years Liquidity holds no attraction for them, when they buy real estate they can see where their money is going - it's big, concrete, touchable (or "physical" in your words) - & they don't care (or it's very much a secondary consideration) that they will get little if any return on it. In fact if it's let out to get some income it immediately becomes secondhand in their eyes, which is anathema to the purists. Better to keep it vacant even if it deteriorates simply by neglect. Ask any property manager how difficult it often is to get management costs out of absentee Chinese owners.
  • Re: "40% of MM2H participants prefer to settle down in Johor"
    Quote: They are certainly taxed on any gains made in the US Stock market. While the US would not tax the capital gains of a non-resident foreign investor, they would tax the dividends. And they would report the capital gains back to the home country...and I would think China would likely tax that income.
    Yes, I know dividends are taxed but depending on how you do it, you can convert some of them to capital gains (like investing in S&P futures instead of an ETF) and you then don't have to pay tax on them. Further, most of the returns are in the form of capital gains anyway. I am not sure of the capital gains taxation in China but at least in HK capital gains are not taxed. And, if they are taxed on the capital gains on the stock market, they probably are taxed on the gains in real estate so I still don't see anything in real estate that overcomes its massive disadvantages.
  • Re: "40% of MM2H participants prefer to settle down in Johor"
    "In my experience, for the most part it's down to the Chinese ingrained psyche - they just can't see the value of pieces of paper"

    Funny that this is the culture that invented paper money i.e. "cash". But social turmoil (wars, revolutions, massive inflation, the absence of the rule of law regarding banks and economic protection) tends to erode trust in everything but material items.