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Settling Into NZ - A Question

Settling Into NZ - A Question

Old Jul 21st 2014, 10:23 am
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Default Re: Settling Into NZ - A Question

I'm not sure I'm ready yet to answer this question.
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Old Jul 21st 2014, 10:56 am
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Default Re: Settling Into NZ - A Question

Immigration used to do quite a lot to support new migrants; I can't remember what it was called something like Kia Ora / Something Else Ora.

Essentially it was packaged as a course of study for which you could enrol(albeit very lightweight); with some workbooks to complete and lots of freebie resources provided. I got heaps of books in two tranches if I recall correctly, including: Road Atlas, Road Code, Edmonds Cookbook, Kiwi Dictionary, booklets about the Treaty, History Books, leaflets about the Health Service and all sorts. It was fantastic but totally OTT to be frank, in terms of the sheer amount of stuff that they provided for free. It must have been incredibly costly and clearly not sustainable; no surprise that the program was pulled due to cutbacks on funding.

I think they could provide similar resources in more cost effective/modern format; perhaps via online e-learning modules or something prior to arrival.

I also agree that businesses could do a lot more to encourage social activity and interaction in the workplace. Work life largely sucks IMVHO for new folks. I have been in and worked around a lot of offices; people seldom take time out to mix with others unless forced to participate in some bizarre fancy dress / BYO lunch occasion. Nobody dare leave the building to go out for lunch. People look aghast at you: 'OMG, what? You're going out, didn't you bring any lunch?'

I find the office social interaction is sadly lacking and a very difficult adaptation to come to terms with for me; it's still alien to me after twenty years of working in London where there was always something going on, someone to meet and practically everyone I know went 'out, out' at some point during their day - usually in their 'lunch hour.' Lunch hour, huh? That's a novel concept; who remembers those?

It is very different here. I find people rarely go out without permission to leave the building. I dream of those regular and spontaneous office celebrations we used to have in the UK; where everyone would turn out because they wanted to. The fun, the after work drinks, the laughs, the team building, the pub lunches, the Christmas parties, the girl's night out to see the shows etc. All of which totally died on their arse since I lived in NZ, as anything that costs money seems to be a no go. We would always invite new folks to come along on the lunch run, show them the ropes and where the best places were - it was always very inclusive.

In contrast almost everyone here brings their own 'cut lunch' or makes their own lunch in the kitchen, returning to their desk to read Stuff and the Herald online and is not really wanting to pass the time of day. When there are shared lunches, work drinks or morning teas, they are generally very contrived and require some confidence and talent in the baking department. I hate it!! Can't we just have a day off from the 'Ladies a Plate' domestics and get some Pizza delivered? It's very intimidating for some having to compete with, and be on parade beside 'our Raewyn's with her world famous Kiwi Dip and asparagus rolls.

Some places provide office drinks on Friday but they're generally only well attended by the desperate and those that will do anything for free beer; others just stand around looking awkward, waiting for a cue to leave and get on their way home asap. I try to avoid such events anyway; as you're made to feel like the proverbial spare wotsit at a wedding if you're driving and choosing not to partake of alcoholic beverage.
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Old Jul 21st 2014, 8:05 pm
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Default Re: Settling Into NZ - A Question

BJ - nailed that one.

Husband was on a rather serious/hard training course last week ending with a 3 hour exam on Friday afternoon. He was then informed he had to go into the office as they were having a get together, no would you like to come out for a drink to relax, just he was expected to turn up, which he duly did.

His previous job. much smaller Company so he was essentially the boss he tried to do the social thing and at first got shocked responses, got staff Christmas Calendars (the one's with the chocolates each day) they all just looked at him and asked what they were supposed to do with them but they soon came round to his way of thinking and it was a lovely social little group of people. So I do think it comes down to the people in charge to make a difference
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Old Jul 21st 2014, 9:12 pm
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Default Re: Settling Into NZ - A Question

I agree about the management and the culture they promote, having said that I think it isn't confined to NZ but a general issue of companies not employing people for there people skills any more, but quite often the only way they can give someone more money e.g. a really crash hot operational person who is exceptional but is looking for more money, many companies only option is to make them a people manager.

The company then actually loses the really great operational person, and ends up with someone who may also be a poor people manager. Seen that happen a heck of a lot.
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Old Jul 22nd 2014, 7:18 am
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Default Re: Settling Into NZ - A Question

Originally Posted by Robbo25
I agree about the management and the culture they promote, having said that I think it isn't confined to NZ but a general issue of companies not employing people for there people skills any more, but quite often the only way they can give someone more money e.g. a really crash hot operational person who is exceptional but is looking for more money, many companies only option is to make them a people manager.

I think it is quite different here though; people are not promoted into roles as such - in my experience they are shoulder-tapped or nominated by one of their mates for the role.

Another thing that is sadly lacking is Professional Development; I always had good employers in the UK that invested in training and developmental stuff. Everyone here shies away, too worried about the bottom-line dollars and not keen on doing the fluffy stuff. I hear it all the time; the sentiment being that doing any kind of workforce development is a waste of money. How bizarre,*looks sideways over the top of specs* Why would you go spending money to make people more clever? What if they leave? OMG they might even get a job over the ditch in Australia and we don't want to encourage any more of that now, do we?

For my own part , being advanced in years and pretty well established in life (much as many skilled immigrants do tend to be when they get here); my work life is more about self-fulfilment and interest beyond the basic need to have head down and earning money - employers here seem to be very naïve in that respect and don't feel obliged to go beyond the contractual arrangement of paying you once a fortnight. They have a lot to learn I think.
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Old Jul 22nd 2014, 9:28 am
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Default Re: Settling Into NZ - A Question

To answer the OP, if you move here for work, people at your work may be your only point of contact in those first few days or weeks. Knowing that they've recruited you from abroad, it would be useful if they took a little time and effort to induct you - both into the workplace and the locality.
Our experience was of people at work who were nice enough and who, over time, became friends, but who had no awareness of how hard it is to turn up somewhere knowing no-one and nothing! Of course, if we had family or existing contacts in the area it would have been easier, but to be honest, no-one even asked. We were also required to do a lot of work, forward planning etc before having any relevant documents or understanding of the context, and before we had found a house or got broadband etc.
It was only the fact we'd spent so much time, energy and money getting to NZ that made us stick it out.
If just one person had offered to show us around, taken us for a coffee or spent time making sure we could use the office systems, it would have made a real difference.
One more thing was a lengthy hold-up with pay at the start too - we waited months before being paid - it was all back paid which was good, but it just added to the unpleasantness of the early weeks as our savings trickled away.
So I would say - make sure people are on the payroll and other systems in a timely way, and induct people properly.
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Old Jul 22nd 2014, 10:00 am
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Default Re: Settling Into NZ - A Question

Originally Posted by Bo-Jangles
I think it is quite different here though; people are not promoted into roles as such - in my experience they are shoulder-tapped or nominated by one of their mates for the role.

Another thing that is sadly lacking is Professional Development; I always had good employers in the UK that invested in training and developmental stuff. Everyone here shies away, too worried about the bottom-line dollars and not keen on doing the fluffy stuff. I hear it all the time; the sentiment being that doing any kind of workforce development is a waste of money. How bizarre,*looks sideways over the top of specs* Why would you go spending money to make people more clever? What if they leave? OMG they might even get a job over the ditch in Australia and we don't want to encourage any more of that now, do we?

For my own part , being advanced in years and pretty well established in life (much as many skilled immigrants do tend to be when they get here); my work life is more about self-fulfilment and interest beyond the basic need to have head down and earning money - employers here seem to be very naïve in that respect and don't feel obliged to go beyond the contractual arrangement of paying you once a fortnight. They have a lot to learn I think.
Very eloquently put!
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Old Jul 22nd 2014, 10:09 am
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Default Re: Settling Into NZ - A Question

Originally Posted by Bo-Jangles
I think it is quite different here though; people are not promoted into roles as such - in my experience they are shoulder-tapped or nominated by one of their mates for the role.

Another thing that is sadly lacking is Professional Development; I always had good employers in the UK that invested in training and developmental stuff. Everyone here shies away, too worried about the bottom-line dollars and not keen on doing the fluffy stuff. I hear it all the time; the sentiment being that doing any kind of workforce development is a waste of money. How bizarre,*looks sideways over the top of specs* Why would you go spending money to make people more clever? What if they leave? OMG they might even get a job over the ditch in Australia and we don't want to encourage any more of that now, do we?

For my own part , being advanced in years and pretty well established in life (much as many skilled immigrants do tend to be when they get here); my work life is more about self-fulfilment and interest beyond the basic need to have head down and earning money - employers here seem to be very naïve in that respect and don't feel obliged to go beyond the contractual arrangement of paying you once a fortnight. They have a lot to learn I think.
I think there is an awful lot of truth here. As far as the man management goes though the effect is just the same......inept people management
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Old Jul 23rd 2014, 11:39 pm
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Default Re: Settling Into NZ - A Question

Originally Posted by jmh
I'm half way through writing a book on job hunting in NZ for migrants, plus I have a lot of clients who are searching for their first job (e.g as the spouse of a skilled migrant).

My views for part one of the question are (note that my clients are often from places like India rather than UK):

A person is more likely to settle in well if they are able to engage with the local population, use the language, and, in the short term, try to adapt to local practices. That doesn't mean that you give up your culture, just that by adapting you may understand better why some things are done differently in NZ compared to other countries. This is easier if you have a job, but I've seen real problems with spouses and family who are not working, and spend most of their time with people speaking the same language and with the same customs. This isolates them and they become unhappy.

Standard of English is a huge issue for people who are not native English speakers. While they may pass the test threshold for immigration, they may not have enough conversational English skills to engage in the community and work force. I had a Chinese client the other day who spoke reasonable English and had got a job. She was sacked because her level of English meant she had trouble explaining the complex equipment she was selling, even though she was an expert in the field and had done the same job in China. She was devastated because she had never been sacked before and she felt she had failed. She is clearly talented, but was let down by her English skills.

One of the problems with the immigration website is that it is too positive about NZ. A more realistic description that includes negative stories would be helpful. People may still come to NZ after reading them but at least they are not expecting some kind of Shangri la. It needs to spell out how hard it is being a migrant, even when everything falls into place. It may be worth doing but it's not an easy option.

Role that businesses can play:

Providing an information pack with advice on local supplies and services, how to find a doctor, how to assess schools, expected dress code, and a basic glossary of terms (e.g. what is ACC?). This can be an online course that they can study before they arrive.

Maybe provide them with a mentor in the company they can go to and ask business and personal questions.

Social events where family are included may be helpful with integrating spouses/partners – e.g. a children's Christmas party or summer barbeque
Support and encouragement for improving the level of English of the worker, as well as for his/her family

A support group for fellow migrants (not necessarily from the same country). The Chinese woman I mentioned above had got some good feedback from some Indian migrants she had met.

You can see from this link that most migrants into NZ don't have English as a first language, so it is a key issue. Testing for it is not good enough - there needs to be further English language support even if people have passed the test:

New Zealand Migrants - How Many and From Where?

I hope that helps. Feel free to ask questions - I have a lot of migrants as clients. Some of the problems cross cultures and language, such as homesickness, missing family and friends, favourite foods etc. Only time will heal those things.
Hi I was interested in this, yesterday I posted about relocating to Aus from NZ - originally from UK. I didn't want to upset anyway, I know when we left the UK moving upset friends, they would ask what is wrong with here?

In 8 yrs i have not settled, I wasn't really homesick but after 3 yrs went home over christmas for 5 wks...it was amazing, had snow in London and loved every minute of it. My husband said it was because I was on holiday. When I came back I just could not settle. We moved and rented a house which would be sub standard living in UK but lots of Kiwis would find it fine...it was an old villa on a life style block. But what did it for me was when my 10 yr old was severely bullied culminating in broken teeth. I felt alone, the school sided with bully and did everything in their power, while admitting it to side with them. It spiralled me into depression, at that point we had lots of kiwi friends but I got very negative about all thinks Kiwi. I got paranoid...although I know this is sometimes real...that when people heard my accent they judged me. Some teachers were quite open about not wanting immigrants here as we just push up house prices. I ended up just socialising with a handful of UK ex pats. I work from home and teach adults part time so have no social life at work. Sounds like a sob story....but I love people and started to miss my social life at home. Loved going out, whereas people tend to socialise in their home here. I got obsessed with London but problem was....I know this is not the place I wanted to bring up my kids. Suddenly I realised I my kids had no roots, no family. My son made me cry one day when he showed me a story - he was 6, he had invented cousins as he said everyone here had cousins!!!

Point I am making is one thing - the bullying, changed everything and spiralled out of control affecting how I viewed NZ and coped living here. I still try to stay integrated but struggle. I am wanting to move to Australia, as older kids are surf life guards and I don't want to be left here when they all fly the nest.

No neg comments please, I would more than anything would have like to have made living here a success, Hawkes Bay is the most beautiful place ever and the best place to bring up my kids, they have had far more opportunities than they would have done back home and maybe in Aus because of population.

is this negative enough for you?!!! lol x
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Old Jul 25th 2014, 1:48 am
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Default Re: Settling Into NZ - A Question

Originally Posted by jmh
I've had a few clients working at NZ companies that have been taken over by larger Australian companies and they have said that the culture changed. I think it is different, but precisely why I'm not sure. I get the impression that in Australia it is more structured on a corporate level (i.e. the hierarchy is more layered than tends to happen in NZ) and there is more regulation.
Very interesting.

Whilst haven't been taken over by another company, rather we now report into Australia who report in to the big cheeses in the US, rather then report directly to the US - it seems to amount to the same.

The NZ and Aus business have histrionically had different processes for both product and cultural reason. With the reporting to and decision making being almost solely in Australia we've been forced to try and use the Australian processes and procedures.

This has resulted in huge gaps in knowledge, leading to backlogs being created where people in Australia simply do not know how to deal with certain NZ specific queries. They don't seem to have recognised from the off that they were trying to fit a round peg in to a square hole, despite repeated warnings and advice.

This has also created an "us and them" scenario that impedes the progress of the business to work through these issues.


I would also echo Bo-Jangles comment on professional development. I've been given the tools of the trade; laptop, phone, car, etc - but I have not had one iota of formal training, I've be forced learned all of our systems and products on the job - which I think is awful, although it's allowed my to show my adaptability qualities

Luckily for me, I've come from the UK and am at least familiar with certain aspects of my role and the products and services we offer. I'm clinging on in there, but someone coming from outside the business would have almost no chance of performing, due to lack of training and general awareness about the development of staff.

Here's a thing, the 'issues' within the business are that bad at the moment that next week I do have my first official mandatory work training day. The title of the course;

Resilience Workshop

Says it all really.
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Old Jul 25th 2014, 1:52 am
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Default Re: Settling Into NZ - A Question

Originally Posted by TommyLuck
Resilience Workshop

Says it all really.
You better start worrying if the second course is 'Job Hunting Skills'.
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Old Jul 25th 2014, 1:53 am
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Default Re: Settling Into NZ - A Question

Originally Posted by alievery
Suddenly I realised I my kids had no roots, no family. My son made me cry one day when he showed me a story - he was 6, he had invented cousins as he said everyone here had cousins!!!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is my only current major fear about bringing my daughter up in NZ whilst everyone else remains in a 25 mile radius of each back in the UK.

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Old Jul 25th 2014, 1:55 am
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Default Re: Settling Into NZ - A Question

Originally Posted by jmh
You better start worrying if the second course is 'Job Hunting Skills'.


I'm looking and have a couple of irons in the fire.

I've got a job, I'm ticking along and money is going in to savings each month, so I'm not desperate to leave.

But if an equally compensated job came up, with similar benefits and work hours I'd take that job in heartbeat.

Last edited by TommyLuck; Jul 25th 2014 at 1:57 am.
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Old Aug 17th 2014, 10:11 am
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Default Re: Settling Into NZ - A Question

Hi, I'm a newbie to these forums and I would like to say that I came here quite a few years ago and if you are willing to forget the UK and work towards a goal then the sky is tyne limit. I came out as a single Dad and needed a job quickly to pay for rent etc. and get my boy established ..... well it all happened with its ups and downs ..... yes bullying etc. - hard times at work .... however when you change to the local way of looking at things you can really grow in many ways. I moved jobs several times and now took the chance and started working for myself ... well its been a good journey and especially if you are willing to step outside the box. NZ allows you to grow if you take the chances and is a lot easier to work for yourself than the UK!
I have a new partner and my son runs his own company ... doing it himself .... so life can be good and is.
My grandfather came out here once as a Dog Judge and his comment when he came back was: NZ is where England was 20 years ago .... friendly people, great outdoor lifestyle but mod cons are a tad behind England.
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Old Aug 17th 2014, 1:52 pm
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Default Re: Settling Into NZ - A Question

"If you are willing to forget the UK"...and THAT is the key. Stop comparing, start living. I wish I had known that five years ago! I was pretty arrogant and kept on about how everything was better back "home" (to my OH but not at work of course) I was blind to the good stuff I guess and we came back to UK in 2011 where we settled back into our lives and bloody Nora was that hard. Now we are planning the return to NZ in 2015. I learned a lot in those two years in NZ and the following three back in UK about what I care about and what matters to me and my OH. It's a cliche and corny but true: if you do what you've always done you'll get what you've always got!!
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