theduke

Never thought this would cunjure up such a debate from both side sof the camp, really really surpised that everyone has talked about what they have and how they feel and themselves etc etc.

Has anyone seen the poverty around them all over the place there are some people/families out there who have not eaten in days, some kids going to school with our children who have no shoes, or have not eaten and are not going to be eating soon. I heard a story last week from my friends kid who said he gave his lunch away to a boy at school who said he had no lunch and hadn't eaten since the day before and all he had was dry bread.

If we don't live in a 3rd World country, well what sort of a world do we live in, I find this sort of stuff the things that make a country what it is, look after your future by looking after your young make them what we want them to be and this country will thrive, but no everyone is looking out for themselves. "the rich get richer and the poor are getting poorer", this statement is so New Zealand.

Please do not take this as a dig at anyone on here, it just angers me that some people in New Zealand are so short sighted.

Glad to see most people are enjoying their time here anyway!

RobClubley

My wife's a primary school teacher in one of the poorest areas in Wellington - the schools are rated in deciles from 1-10, 10 being the most affluent.
Theirs is decile 1a becasue 1 wasn't low enough!!

She has kids whose dads are in prison, whose parents don't pick them up because they're in the pub, kids with no coats in winter and no shoes, kids coming with no lunch and no-one has fed them since dinner at 6 the night before.

It's terrible and it shouldn't happen but it doesn't make it a third world country.
I'm sure the same happens in the UK and everywhere else in the world.

bro69

Yes there is poverty in New Zealand that does not make it a third world country. The Government does a lot to provide for families they give lots of money to help people. The real problem is the choices that these people then make, they decide they would rather play on pokies or on booze or cigarettes.

They need to address bigger problems that are found especially in the Maori and pacific island communities of New Zealand.

theduke

Close to the edge comment especially from an immigrant

Assanah

Well, than Germany is a 3rd world country too, i guess:


02/19/2009

Rising Poverty?
Children Flock to German Soup Kitchens

By Guido Kleinhubbert

More and more children are heading to Germany's soup kitchens for a warm meal. But as rising unemployment pushes more families into poverty, charities are struggling to keep up with lengthening queues.

....

The catalyst for this initiative was a crying first-grader who was brought to the principal's office some months ago. The girl had fallen from her chair in class, too weak to support herself. Seeing a cup of tea and a slice of bread on the principal's desk, her eyes widened. Eichelbaum offered the girl breakfast, which she grabbed greedily; her crying stopped. She had clearly had nothing to eat for several days.
....
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...608690,00.html

JohnThePom

Sometimes it takes an outside view to put things into perspective?

However, I don't think that the statement was contentious. It's clear that Maori and Pacific Islander communities on average are less socio-economically "successful" in NZ by western standards.

That's not attributing blame, it's just a fact.

Is it a problem? If it's associated with racism, perceived poverty, alienation and crime then yes, if it's a conscious choice and lifestyle decision then no.

Is there a solution? I'd love to hear some constructive suggestions, but unfortunately discussions like this usually turn into finger pointing.

I'd also love to hear some input from Maori, but I guess that's unlikely on a expats forum!

WP

donki

clean and green.... the countryside yes the cities and suburbs definately NOT

Certainly not Auckland

Robbo25

All a matter of perspective and for many the North Shore and many other areas of Auckland are clean and green compared to million plus locations in the UK for instance.

lardyl

On the surface maybe but pick away at the clean and green image and what do you get?

No public transport infrastructure to speak of
Gas guzzling ex_jap 4x4s and UTEs clogging the roads
Recycling that goes to China
Filthy rivers caused by intensive dairying
The "she'll be right" attitude to much that we need to rely on for safety and environmental security

As others have said its the low population density that makes all this possible, not sustainable in the long term IMO, but possible.

However, NZ has more reliable rainfall (most of the time), more land available for farming, better renewable resources and other advantages over an over-crowded, some might say, wrung-out UK.

But as others have said it is pretty culturally bereft, aside from the obvious colour (no pun intended) brought to us by our communities. So parts of NZ life could be 3rd grade or even Third World but in reality we're not living in a country like Tanzania. Are we?

crap coffee

If you think living in the NZ is bad then spend a week in Cambodia or Vietnam or Bangladesh and then see how you feel, I think you will kiss the ground when you get off the plane at Auckland/Heathrow airport. Compared to some parts of the world, NZ (or even the UK) is paradise.

I've never been to China, but my parents been there for two weeks ... Mum said its totally a 3rd world country.. China is categorised now as 2nd world...but... still pretty much 3rd world/uncivilized. Myself, can't imagine being there even just for two days.. NOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooo! I'd go crazy..

Stormer999

Spot on, Had to spend time out in the 'sticks' in PCR on the Yangtze river couldn't agree more with CC

KazUK

I've only been to the north island and thought it was great
the people were all friendly- and i mean people from all races
the rudest person i met was a brit

the weather was great
i dont care about a bit of rain, as in the UK its what we have most of the time

And if you want 3rd world, try the West Midlands
If all the big cities i have seen across the world, try Birmingham. Its hell on earth. Its a concrete jungle full of uncivilised people

Wolverhampton was named 5th worst city in the world, its true.
highest unemployment in the UK
high levels of obesity
lowest educational attainment for 16-24 year olds
Increasing levels of violent crime

Unless you live in bath, york, oxford, cambridge or edinburgh then most of the UK is a dump
the old industrial towns are horrible

NZ is great- if people dont like it then why move there?
Its chilled out, they have got the work/life balance right

janek

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World

No we have never done communism, but I think this welfare state we are in has one or two things to answer. These children you see at school not being fed have parents who have money but choose to spend it else where.

The parents are being handed the taxpayer funded 'free lucnches' and not passing it on to their children.
I suppose what I am trying to say is you don't need a lot of money to make a couple of pieces of toast in the morning and a sandwich for lunch, but it might require a small effort, something that is beyond some people.

Maybe you were meaning 'developing world' ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developing_world
Nice maps!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_South is an interesting one too, map a bit garish though.......

dorrick

Hi, not trying to pick an argument, honest. Been here since 67. Came as nineteen year-old with my parents. On here because I was looking for house-exchange couple of years ago, and since my son and daughter are both in UK like to check on how people feel when they get here or return. Have visited UK occassionally, last time Aug/Sept 09. I laugh when people say there is no difference between the climates, they obviously didn't move from the Glasgow area to Auckland! However, what I would appreciate having clarified is that people often say NZ is 30 yrs behind UK. Can you please explain how? Also, culturally bereft? My friends in UK all live similar lives to me - work, home, garden, DVDs, occassional movies/theatre, occasional eating out, holidays might differ(we don't have Europe on the doorstep but they seldom go anyway and we have the beach for long parts of the year). I know UK has more shopping choice, but when I was shopping for a wedding outfit recently, I honestly was spoilt for choice - maybe that is just Jaffaland (couldn't have said the same in 67). I am fully aware NZ is not perfect and not looking for "we're better than you" argument. So if anyone feels inclined I would appreciate explanation; visitors and friends of offspring often ask about living here. When I read some comments here I feel my answers may not paint the whole picture, so what am I missing?
Sorry about the ramble. TIA

Genesis

I think some people see the lack of culture as being the lack of historical buildings. Some also see it as the 'cultural scene thing'..limited museums, live classical music, art galleries et al. Lets face it europe has way more 'culture' that NZ...there are all those euro countries all with their own identity. We have limited Moari/Island culture and the pakeha culture, and that is pretty much it. I understand their point. The backwards bit refers to attitudes that are somewhat old fashioned. Drink drive is still a big part of kiwi culture..that is backwards. NZ whilst becoming more PC is still a place where spades are called spades. You often hear wanker and bollocks on mainstream Radio 2 like progs...I think that is great. But I am quite irreverent. I can see how some would see that as backwards. Can you imagine the same on the birtish airways?? Some see the shops as backwards, as are way too many of the roads. NZ used to be no 1 for the broadband its now way down the list. I like the backwards 'feel'. I am not one for hi tech stuff and I think some of the backwardness of NZ is part of its charm. It has a low population density that too reminds people of maybe the UK in their childhood when the UK was not as over crowded as it is now.