marblep

Hello all. Sorry if I'm in the wrong forum - I have a question about a passport. Is our child allowed to have a British passport (and British citizenship) if she was born in NZ and her Dad is a British citizen? We've heard all different things and the uk website sends us in roundabouts.

MrsFychan

she can if the father was not a citizen by decent, but I believe she cannot pass down to her own children

http://britishexpats.com/wiki/Britis...en_Born_Abroad

marblep

Thanks Mrs F - most useful

Polly 3

Yep, my kids born in Wellington, dad in Hull Uk dual citizenship, they are adults now, so don't know if thats changed since their birth. BTW, they always travel now on their NZ passports, appears the NZ passport is really well received and respected. The first time they went to the UK to visit grandparents they used their UK ppt and were given the third degree buy the immigration officer at the airport, well they thought it was the third degree, he himself came from somewhere else and they couldn't understand him!!!!!!!

BritInParis

A child born overseas to a British father will normally be a British citizen by descent if the British father was born in the UK and he was married to the mother at the time of the child's birth if the child was born before July 2006.

bearskin

Hi, strangely, this is something we've been discussing recently...

Dad (me) has a British passport - and has become a NZ citizen.
Mum (Mrs B) has had a British passport - and has become a NZ citizen - AND now has a NZ passport.
Our eldest was born in the UK, and has had a British passport - he travelled to NZ on it, but has since become a NZ citizen - AND now has a NZ passport.

Our youngest however, was born in NZ, and is therefore the only one of us who is a NZ citizen by birth. He's only ever had a NZ passport. He was born in 2005, when both Mum and Dad were still (only) UK citizens. Both Mum and Dad are now dual citizens of UK and NZ - as is big brother.

I assume he can get a UK passport? I've been told he should/must do this before he is 18? And, will his children have rights to be UK citizens? or only if he chooses to live in the UK and they are born there?

BritInParis

If you and Mrs Bearskin were both born in the UK and were married when your youngest was born in New Zealand then he is British by descent. He can apply for a British passport at any time. Holding or not holding a British passport will not affect his British citizenship although the application process may be simpler if he applies before he turns 18.

If his children are born in the UK then they will be also be British and entitled to New Zealand citizenship by descent. If his children are born outside the UK then generally they would not be entitled to British citizenship unless their mother was British-born. The main exception to this would be if he was serving overseas in the British armed forces, diplomatic service or another form of Crown service. Additionally if your youngest had resided in the UK for three consecutive years at any time before his children are born then they would be eligible to register as British citizens before they turned 18.

Failing that, as it stands, your grandchildren would be entitled to ancestry visas through you and Mrs Bearskin.

bearskin

Merci Monsieur.

the "as is stands" bit is one of the the aspects of this that is always a worry!

Just for your info, the little one is aiming to be the first dual NZ/UK citizen to play for the New Zealand rugby team (he refers to this rabble as 'the All Blacks' - I won't) and then go on to be Prime Minister of GB.

TommyLuck

I'm very pleased to hear this. Sir Clive Woodward would be very pleased to hear this too.


Good to know the info on this query in case we have a sprog in NZ, which isn't that unlikely.

I'm British with British Passport and as it stands NZ PR.

OH is a Kiwi but with British Passport through residing in the UK for long enough.

1st born, born in the UK but had UK and NZ passports of the bat, so to speak.


Because our first born was born outside of NZ she gained her NZ passport by decent from my OH, which meant that at that stage she would be unable to pass it on to any of her kids.

Now we're in NZ and she has lived here we we're able to upgrade her citizenship so that she can now pass it on to her kids. not sure of the technical term for that ... ?

So, to clarify; this is a similar situation in reverse if a kid is born here to UK passport holding parent/s?

i.e. A child born in NZ to one or more parents who have British citizenship, not through decent, are entitled to a British Passport by decent.

TommyLuck

"As it stands"

These three words are absolutely the key reason I wont be buggering about and will get all my kids signed up to the relevant citizenships and passports and will keep them renewed until they're big enough and ugly enough to manage it themselves.

Rules and regulations can change and my kids and grand kids will potentially be saved a lot of time and hassle if we just get the citizenship stuff sorted early doors.

For the sake of a couple of hundred bucks every 5 or 10 years, I'm willing to invest in the freedom of movement of my future blood line.

TommyLuck

Ignoring the almost xenophobic last sentence, this sounds fair enough to me. I would imagine that anytime a British Passport arrives in the UK for the first time when issued overseas receives similar treatment.

They call it a "Border Force" for a reason.

They'd almost definitely by up for the third degree if they rocked up in the UK presenting NZ Passports, holding valid UK passports.

Or at least my wife got a stern telling off for this very thing, despite my sage advice

Polly 3

Tommyluck, you are so right, my son in law has triple citizenship and keeps his Uk, NZ and OZ passport up to date.
My Brother, was born in OZ but lives in NZ and has done so for 30 years. Went to get a passport to travel to OZ to see us and got "Sorry mate, you might have been born in Australia, but as you have never RENEWED your citizenship with the Australian High Commision, your not one of us now" He was born there for goodness sakes. He had to get his local MP to fight his case, he never knew he had to renew his citizenship. He could have applied to become a NZ cit and will do so, however that was going to take time and he to be honest, he really felt livid to think they could take away what he considers his birthright!

TommyLuck

Yep, assuming that you have a birthright to nationality is a relatively common misconception.

I've not heard of anyone holding nationality in triplicate before!

Which reminds me of this story;

Click Here.

Just because you are born somewhere doesn't give you the right to anything in terms of citizenship and the benefits associated with it.

I desperately feel for this kid, but wouldn't aim my ire at the Australian Government. His parents are adults and could have reasonably done the due diligence to realise this eventuality.

Pleading ignorance, literally and in my opinion, is not an argument when it comes to the law, whether it be immigration, criminal or civil law!!

This story and my view may seem harsh, but unfortunately these laws need to be in place to stop people turning up, giving birth and claiming citizenship.


I suppose the relationship between NZ and Australia is an interesting one because NZ citizens are able to live and work indefinitely in Australia - no other nationality is afforded this perk.

Further to that, Australia has to protect its self from people using NZ as a "back door". After all, NZ has undeniably more relaxed immigration laws than Australia does.

Equally what does really Australia want with a load (more?) of bonehead bogans? I suppose they take the rough with the smooth and claim some of the cream of the NZ professionals too.

I digress, but I think it's a fascinating conversation; the whys and wherefores of Kiwi's (or NZ passport holders) working and living in Australia.

Polly 3

Tommyluck, didn't have NZ ppts then ,only the British one. However, I have worked as assistant passport officer for a British High Commission and would hate to think any British passport issued overseas is regarded with any form of suspicion, we issued hundreds per month. People travelling MUST always use only one ppt for any journey so they exit and re enter on the same ppt, its amazing how may people carry a second ppt with them and try and use it mid stream. A few countries, Australia being one, has strict rules about using a second ppt, if you have OZ cit you must only use that ppt to exist and re enter OZ, which is fair enough. Never had a problem using my British ppt, issued in Wellington to enter UK, even though I state I live in another country yet again. What drives me mad is when people don't keep passport up to date, if your family is overseas it vital to do so, really got sick of getting up and going out in the evenings to issue emergency passports for people.

Polly 3

Don't get me started on that one, my advice to anyone, thinking of working in OZ and have both NZ and British passports is to use the British one and go through the visa process. Its worth the effort in the long run and yes you are correct about the backdoor things, cost Australia lots and really made me mad to think people could use NZ like that too!