USA ->UK passport questions from a USc whose mom is a UKc
Jan 20th 2017, 11:13 pm
#16
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Re: USA ->UK passport questions from a USc whose mom is a UKc
I had this issue with one of my children as for some reason the birth certificate was issued (just) over three months after birth. Fortunately I'd kept the hospital bill and they accepted that. If paid through insurance, another possibility is that the insurance company may have documentation of a paid claim for the birth.
Jan 21st 2017, 11:59 am
#17
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Re: USA ->UK passport questions from a USc whose mom is a UKc
Yes, back in the day hospitals committed records to microfilm. And even today can locate those microfilmed records and print copies therefrom.
Hospital records would show that a person having your mother's name went through childbirth on the date you claim as your date of birth. Nothing more would be needed as a reasonable basis.
As to putative father's paternity, biology is not strictly required. What would typically apply would be that the woman who gave birth was legally married to a man who was born (etc) in the UK. Either born in UK is sufficient, mother or mother's husband.
Hospital records would show that a person having your mother's name went through childbirth on the date you claim as your date of birth. Nothing more would be needed as a reasonable basis.
As to putative father's paternity, biology is not strictly required. What would typically apply would be that the woman who gave birth was legally married to a man who was born (etc) in the UK. Either born in UK is sufficient, mother or mother's husband.
About birth certificates, while it seems excessive, many countries have systems for birth certificates issued after the fact which don't always contain original information. In some Latin American countries if father isn't physically present, a birth certificate issued without any name for father, then when father is present he goes down to notary to sign a revised birth certificate. In US I know of one state where if father not present, mother can put any name down as father.
Maybe UK bureaucrats just got tired of dealing with such situations so are stricter than other countries.
Jan 21st 2017, 4:35 pm
#18
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Re: USA ->UK passport questions from a USc whose mom is a UKc
So hospitals keep records forever ? There is no time limit ?
In some Latin American countries if father isn't physically present, a birth certificate issued without any name for father, then when father is present he goes down to notary to sign a revised birth certificate. In US I know of one state where if father not present, mother can put any name down as father.
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In some Latin American countries if father isn't physically present, a birth certificate issued without any name for father, then when father is present he goes down to notary to sign a revised birth certificate. In US I know of one state where if father not present, mother can put any name down as father.
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Also, I think it is still the case that a married woman can add her husband's name to the birth certificate just by producing her marriage certificate; she does not actually need her husband to attend the registry office with her.
My grandmother used this method of placing her husband's name on the birth certificates of her children born in 1918 and 1926, despite the husband in question having died in 1914. In my practice as a family lawyer, I came across exactly the same fraud committed more recently.
Jan 24th 2017, 12:56 am
#19
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Re: USA ->UK passport questions from a USc whose mom is a UKc
Practices vary, many hospitals are allowed to set their own policies.
In the days before microfilm, paper records definitely had a finite life. Once the paper is committed to microfilm, the cost of keeping it is minor. Modernly I would expect those microfilmed records have, at some point, been digitized and archived with all the other hospital digital records (which of course are captured to disc and flash memory in various ways).
So in practice hospital records are more subject to the vagaries of business mergers and takeovers (or public political changes) than technology limitations. But, by and large, hospital records are typically kept for longer than you might think.
In the days before microfilm, paper records definitely had a finite life. Once the paper is committed to microfilm, the cost of keeping it is minor. Modernly I would expect those microfilmed records have, at some point, been digitized and archived with all the other hospital digital records (which of course are captured to disc and flash memory in various ways).
So in practice hospital records are more subject to the vagaries of business mergers and takeovers (or public political changes) than technology limitations. But, by and large, hospital records are typically kept for longer than you might think.
Jan 24th 2017, 1:00 am
#20
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Re: USA ->UK passport questions from a USc whose mom is a UKc
...
My grandmother used this method of placing her husband's name on the birth certificates of her children born in 1918 and 1926, despite the husband in question having died in 1914. In my practice as a family lawyer, I came across exactly the same fraud committed more recently.
My grandmother used this method of placing her husband's name on the birth certificates of her children born in 1918 and 1926, despite the husband in question having died in 1914. In my practice as a family lawyer, I came across exactly the same fraud committed more recently.
Jan 24th 2017, 1:51 am
#21
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Re: USA ->UK passport questions from a USc whose mom is a UKc
Practices vary, many hospitals are allowed to set their own policies.
In the days before microfilm, paper records definitely had a finite life. Once the paper is committed to microfilm, the cost of keeping it is minor. Modernly I would expect those microfilmed records have, at some point, been digitized and archived with all the other hospital digital records (which of course are captured to disc and flash memory in various ways).
So in practice hospital records are more subject to the vagaries of business mergers and takeovers (or public political changes) than technology limitations. But, by and large, hospital records are typically kept for longer than you might think.
In the days before microfilm, paper records definitely had a finite life. Once the paper is committed to microfilm, the cost of keeping it is minor. Modernly I would expect those microfilmed records have, at some point, been digitized and archived with all the other hospital digital records (which of course are captured to disc and flash memory in various ways).
So in practice hospital records are more subject to the vagaries of business mergers and takeovers (or public political changes) than technology limitations. But, by and large, hospital records are typically kept for longer than you might think.
Ugh. So confusing. I called again and got different information suggesting some records may exist. But when they transferred me to the person in Medical Records she told me that many records from the 1980s were missing/had been lost due to poor organization. The receptionist in Medical Records told me she herself was born my year at the same hospital but couldn't even find her own records. I am thinking of just flying to Chicago and trying to see if I can get further by being there in person. Something must exist! I was a premature baby, so maybe some of those records may still exist?
Jan 24th 2017, 1:59 am
#22
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Re: USA ->UK passport questions from a USc whose mom is a UKc
There is a slight difference in my adopted childs BC and my biological childrens BC's, all born in California.
I noticed by chance that the county of birth is not embossed on the adopted certificate like it is on the others, the ones with the county on have it under the name California and the adopted one has a blank
If you look at this one
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-weUK_nKGtn...california.png It shows a county, Alameda.
If you look at this one it just says California same as my adopted childs BC.
http://www.cristanwilliams.com/b/wp-.../birthcert.png
Does your Mum have your hospital certificate, with footprints on, thats another thing they might look at.
I noticed by chance that the county of birth is not embossed on the adopted certificate like it is on the others, the ones with the county on have it under the name California and the adopted one has a blank
If you look at this one
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-weUK_nKGtn...california.png It shows a county, Alameda.
If you look at this one it just says California same as my adopted childs BC.
http://www.cristanwilliams.com/b/wp-.../birthcert.png
Does your Mum have your hospital certificate, with footprints on, thats another thing they might look at.
I'll look into whether or not Illinois does anything special with an adopted BC. Thank you for this info.
Jan 24th 2017, 7:34 am
#23
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Re: USA ->UK passport questions from a USc whose mom is a UKc
In wartime, quite many men were MIA, Missing in Action and presumed to be dead. Which is not exactly the same thing as actually having died. And in most English-speaking jurisdictions the husband of the wife was legally the father of the child irrespective of any biological or residence considerations.
There is a legal presumption that the husband of a woman is the father of her child, which isn't quite the same thing as being 'legally the father of the child'. It is a presumption which can be rebutted. But there is no presumption that a dead or divorced husband is the father of a woman's child, and it is still fraud to provide a husband's name for a birth certificate when he actually died, or the couple divorced more than nine months before the birth.
So what is your point?
Last edited by Editha; Jan 24th 2017 at 7:45 am.
