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USA ->UK passport questions from a USc whose mom is a UKc

USA ->UK passport questions from a USc whose mom is a UKc

Old Jan 18th 2017, 1:46 am
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Default USA ->UK passport questions from a USc whose mom is a UKc

My mom is British. I was born in the US after Jan 1 1983. According to the U.K. Passport Office I should be eligible for a passport. When I applied I provided my full birth certificate, my mom's full birth certificate, a consigned application, two passport photos, and a copy of my US passport. However, the office sent me a note saying I need additional documentation. Since I applied with a birth certificate that wasn't issued within three months of my birth, they disregarded my perfectly valid but recently issued full birth certificate.

They listed a bunch of very specific medical and birth records which I do not have. I called the passport agency and they claim that they need as many of th following specific documents: prenatal/postnatal records, hospital bills from when I was a baby, baptism/christening certificates, baby inoculation cards, hospital birth notes from when I was a baby, admission/discharge notes from my birth, and a series of progressive family photos showing us together. They say they want all of these to be originals.

This is very complicated because: 1. My mom didn't want to have me and has always been weird about keeping records in general, 2. Nearly all photos and other items were destroyed in a flood that happened when I was a child, 3. The hospital where I was born destroys all documents older than 10 years.

I am incredibly disheartened because I don't think I can provide anything. I may be able to provide a few photos, but other than that I have nothing and I'm not sure I can get these originals.

Does anyone have experience with this?
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Old Jan 18th 2017, 7:34 am
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Default Re: USA ->UK passport questions from a USc whose mom is a UKc

It's because it is standard practice in the US for birth certificates to be reissued showing adoptive parents as if they were your birth parents thus any birth certificate issued more than three months after the birth is treated as suspect by HMPO.

You can't provide what you don't have. I would provide what you can and include an explanatory letter. Then it's just a case of seeing what the examiner's decision will be.
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Old Jan 18th 2017, 9:37 am
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Default Re: USA ->UK passport questions from a USc whose mom is a UKc

What if it's a certificate that says "live birth"? I've never considered the possibility that they might want to rule out someone trying to apply for citizenship through descent who's adopted. So is it not posssible for them to gain citizenship through a non-biological parent? I guess that would violate the idea of jus sanguinis.

Anyway, I'm not sure what the three month mark really means - some people are adopted at birth. I'm not even sure how I can go about proving I wasn't adopted short of a DNA test.

Last edited by the_miracle_berry; Jan 18th 2017 at 9:38 am. Reason: I wanted to italicize something
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Old Jan 18th 2017, 10:06 am
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Default Re: USA ->UK passport questions from a USc whose mom is a UKc

Originally Posted by the_miracle_berry
What if it's a certificate that says "live birth"? I've never considered the possibility that they might want to rule out someone trying to apply for citizenship through descent who's adopted. So is it not posssible for them to gain citizenship through a non-biological parent? I guess that would violate the idea of jus sanguinis.
'Live birth' only refers to the child not being stillborn. It is possible to gain British citizenship through an adoptive parent but not by descent which is the basis for your claim.

Anyway, I'm not sure what the three month mark really means - some people are adopted at birth. I'm not even sure how I can go about proving I wasn't adopted short of a DNA test.
That might end up being requested. Go back with what you have and an explanation first however.
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Old Jan 18th 2017, 10:28 pm
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Default Re: USA ->UK passport questions from a USc whose mom is a UKc

Originally Posted by BritInParis
'Live birth' only refers to the child not being stillborn. It is possible to gain British citizenship through an adoptive parent but not by descent which is the basis for your claim.



That might end up being requested. Go back with what you have and an explanation first however.
That is a bit excessive. I hope they don't, because that'd be incredibly costly given that my mom lives in Chicago and I live in San Francisco. Also, I don't even think she'd agree to it. Do they ask for DNA often?
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Old Jan 18th 2017, 10:46 pm
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Default Re: USA ->UK passport questions from a USc whose mom is a UKc

Originally Posted by the_miracle_berry
That is a bit excessive. I hope they don't, because that'd be incredibly costly given that my mom lives in Chicago and I live in San Francisco. Also, I don't even think she'd agree to it. Do they ask for DNA often?
It's not usual but then your situation is not typical. It will be up to the passport examiner whether to request DNA testing.
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Old Jan 18th 2017, 10:47 pm
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Default Re: USA ->UK passport questions from a USc whose mom is a UKc

Originally Posted by the_miracle_berry
That is a bit excessive. I hope they don't, because that'd be incredibly costly given that my mom lives in Chicago and I live in San Francisco. Also, I don't even think she'd agree to it. Do they ask for DNA often?
You wrote that the relevant hospital destroys all records after ten years. Most hospitals do not. I would guess, only a guess, that it would help your case if you send in a letter from the hospital which states their policy. Or better that you "cannot have the records you requested for that reason".
A notarized letter from your mother saying that you were born to her, not adopted by her, might help too.

Try to see it from the point of view of the bureaucrat who has to administer the laws as he or she is instructed "make sure the applicant is not adopted". There has to be a reasonable basis for believing your claim to not be an adopted person.
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Old Jan 18th 2017, 10:49 pm
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Default Re: USA ->UK passport questions from a USc whose mom is a UKc

Originally Posted by holly_1948
You wrote that the relevant hospital destroys all records after ten years. Most hospitals do not. I would guess, only a guess, that it would help your case if you send in a letter from the hospital which states their policy. Or better that you "cannot have the records you requested for that reason".
A notarized letter from your mother saying that you were born to her, not adopted by her, might help too.

Try to see it from the point of view of the bureaucrat who has to administer the laws as he or she is instructed "make sure the applicant is not adopted". There has to be a reasonable basis for believing your claim to not be an adopted person.
Excellent advice
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Old Jan 19th 2017, 12:37 am
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Default Re: USA ->UK passport questions from a USc whose mom is a UKc

Originally Posted by holly_1948
You wrote that the relevant hospital destroys all records after ten years. Most hospitals do not. I would guess, only a guess, that it would help your case if you send in a letter from the hospital which states their policy. Or better that you "cannot have the records you requested for that reason".
A notarized letter from your mother saying that you were born to her, not adopted by her, might help too.

Try to see it from the point of view of the bureaucrat who has to administer the laws as he or she is instructed "make sure the applicant is not adopted". There has to be a reasonable basis for believing your claim to not be an adopted person.

I understand why they're doing it, I just think that even with the birth certificate being issued within three months it isn't ironclad proof that I wasn't adopted. Some children are adopted at birth. And what about those who make the claim through their fathers? Paternity is never guaranteed without DNA evidence. But all of this considered, I hope they might be lenient and just take what I can offer.

Also, I wasn't aware that most hospitals do not have that policy. It made sense to me when I called, but maybe I should call again to be sure. I'd go to the hospital but it's in Chicago, which is several hours away by air. I know they did an amniocentesis when I was in utero (my mom had me at 40, so there was a risk of Down's), if I could get that, then that would help. Maybe?
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Old Jan 19th 2017, 8:07 am
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Default Re: USA ->UK passport questions from a USc whose mom is a UKc

Originally Posted by the_miracle_berry
... Also, I wasn't aware that most hospitals do not have that policy. It made sense to me when I called, but maybe I should call again to be sure. I'd go to the hospital but it's in Chicago, which is several hours away by air. I know they did an amniocentesis when I was in utero (my mom had me at 40, so there was a risk of Down's), if I could get that, then that would help. Maybe?
Yes, back in the day hospitals committed records to microfilm. And even today can locate those microfilmed records and print copies therefrom.
Hospital records would show that a person having your mother's name went through childbirth on the date you claim as your date of birth. Nothing more would be needed as a reasonable basis.

As to putative father's paternity, biology is not strictly required. What would typically apply would be that the woman who gave birth was legally married to a man who was born (etc) in the UK. Either born in UK is sufficient, mother or mother's husband.
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Old Jan 19th 2017, 10:04 am
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Default Re: USA ->UK passport questions from a USc whose mom is a UKc

I was born in 1983. I'm definitely going to ask the hospital again. Thanks for this info.
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Old Jan 19th 2017, 10:56 am
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Default Re: USA ->UK passport questions from a USc whose mom is a UKc

Originally Posted by the_miracle_berry
I understand why they're doing it, I just think that even with the birth certificate being issued within three months it isn't ironclad proof that I wasn't adopted. Some children are adopted at birth. And what about those who make the claim through their fathers? Paternity is never guaranteed without DNA evidence. But all of this considered, I hope they might be lenient and just take what I can offer.

Also, I wasn't aware that most hospitals do not have that policy. It made sense to me when I called, but maybe I should call again to be sure. I'd go to the hospital but it's in Chicago, which is several hours away by air. I know they did an amniocentesis when I was in utero (my mom had me at 40, so there was a risk of Down's), if I could get that, then that would help. Maybe?
I don't know about the USA, but in the UK 'adopted at birth' is impossible because adoption proceedings cannot be commenced until after the birth of the child, and it would be very unlikely that they could be completed in less than three months.

I'm talking about the legal proceedings leading to reissue of the birth certificate, not placement of the baby with prospective adopters, which certainly could happen at birth.

It might be worth checking to see what the birth certificate would look like if you had been adopted. If it differs from your own certificate, that may offer some proof that you are not adopted.

Last edited by Editha; Jan 19th 2017 at 11:01 am.
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Old Jan 19th 2017, 12:32 pm
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Default Re: USA ->UK passport questions from a USc whose mom is a UKc

Originally Posted by Editha
I don't know about the USA, but in the UK 'adopted at birth' is impossible because adoption proceedings cannot be commenced until after the birth of the child, and it would be very unlikely that they could be completed in less than three months.

I'm talking about the legal proceedings leading to reissue of the birth certificate, not placement of the baby with prospective adopters, which certainly could happen at birth.

It might be worth checking to see what the birth certificate would look like if you had been adopted. If it differs from your own certificate, that may offer some proof that you are not adopted.
The issue is that in the US an adoptive birth certificate looks no different from a regular birth certificate - the adoptive parents' names are simply swapped in and the certificate reissued. If they could distinguished then HMPO wouldn't need to ask for anything else.
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Old Jan 19th 2017, 2:55 pm
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Default Re: USA ->UK passport questions from a USc whose mom is a UKc

Originally Posted by BritInParis
The issue is that in the US an adoptive birth certificate looks no different from a regular birth certificate - the adoptive parents' names are simply swapped in and the certificate reissued. If they could distinguished then HMPO wouldn't need to ask for anything else.

There is a slight difference in my adopted childs BC and my biological childrens BC's, all born in California.
I noticed by chance that the county of birth is not embossed on the adopted certificate like it is on the others, the ones with the county on have it under the name California and the adopted one has a blank
If you look at this one
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-weUK_nKGtn...california.png It shows a county, Alameda.

If you look at this one it just says California same as my adopted childs BC.
http://www.cristanwilliams.com/b/wp-.../birthcert.png

Does your Mum have your hospital certificate, with footprints on, thats another thing they might look at.
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Old Jan 20th 2017, 10:30 pm
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Default Re: USA ->UK passport questions from a USc whose mom is a UKc

Originally Posted by Mummy in the foothills
Does your Mum have your hospital certificate, with footprints on, thats another thing they might look at.
I had this issue with one of my children as for some reason the birth certificate was issued (just) over three months after birth. Fortunately I'd kept the hospital bill and they accepted that. If paid through insurance, another possibility is that the insurance company may have documentation of a paid claim for the birth.
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