A tale of two countries: Ireland and Aus
Jan 21st 2015, 5:15 pm
#1
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 4
A tale of two countries: Ireland and Aus
Hi everyone!
I'd like to get some feedback from you guys who are deciding to move back to the UK. I think you'd add some valuable perspective.
The only two countries available to me to emigrate to are Ireland and Australia, both through the visa process and not through any ancestral route. I'll also be taking a dependent parent with me, which I've explored extensively and is an available option in both countries because of the country I'm coming from (South Africa).
So, both Ireland and Australia have their pros and cons, but as someone who hasn't yet visited either, I'd really appreciate hearing your thoughts on the best road forward.
I've weighed up a lot of aspects of both countries, including:
- the actual environment (types and size of house and garden, for example, variety of amenities and things to do like food markets, birding, national parks and such)
- transport options and ease of getting around (cars vs public - traffic congestion)
- the people / culture (in general, of course)
- the job market (depends on industry, of course, but in the digital marketing field there are jobs in both - but seemingly more in Aus)
- the economy / cost of living (which would allow me to afford to save more each month)
- medical options and costs (bearing in mind my dependant as well)
- weather restrictions (they're totally different climates - but is Ireland's cloudy/rainy weather more or less restrictive than Aus heat, or vice versa?)
- safety (in general, is it safer for someone in their older years to be living in either or both of the countries?)
Ultimately, I'm leaning towards Aus because of the weather (parent is freezing in 10 degrees, and loves getting out and about to take photographs of birds and wildlife, and go exploring) and the fact that we'd have a PR visa from the start (versus renewing a visa annually in Ireland until earning citizenship in 5 years).
However, those benefits in mind, Aus is still not Europe. It's not London, which we both love. Canterbury, Richmond Park, Kew, loads of wildlife and heritage. And planning ahead, I have to think about what I'll do one day when I'm older: prefer living in the comfort of Melbourne, or still miss the unique environment of London and the UK. This would be the only reason for going with Ireland, other than the fact that I could pretty easily secure a working visa with paid relocation.
So is it five years of hellish weather for a payoff at the end = EU passport for us both to move to London, and live somewhere slightly warmer in the South East? Or living for now and going somewhere pretty stable, safe, easy to drive around, and a good way to save money (though Ireland would also allow us to save).
What would you guys do in this position?
I'd like to get some feedback from you guys who are deciding to move back to the UK. I think you'd add some valuable perspective.
The only two countries available to me to emigrate to are Ireland and Australia, both through the visa process and not through any ancestral route. I'll also be taking a dependent parent with me, which I've explored extensively and is an available option in both countries because of the country I'm coming from (South Africa).
So, both Ireland and Australia have their pros and cons, but as someone who hasn't yet visited either, I'd really appreciate hearing your thoughts on the best road forward.
I've weighed up a lot of aspects of both countries, including:
- the actual environment (types and size of house and garden, for example, variety of amenities and things to do like food markets, birding, national parks and such)
- transport options and ease of getting around (cars vs public - traffic congestion)
- the people / culture (in general, of course)
- the job market (depends on industry, of course, but in the digital marketing field there are jobs in both - but seemingly more in Aus)
- the economy / cost of living (which would allow me to afford to save more each month)
- medical options and costs (bearing in mind my dependant as well)
- weather restrictions (they're totally different climates - but is Ireland's cloudy/rainy weather more or less restrictive than Aus heat, or vice versa?)
- safety (in general, is it safer for someone in their older years to be living in either or both of the countries?)
Ultimately, I'm leaning towards Aus because of the weather (parent is freezing in 10 degrees, and loves getting out and about to take photographs of birds and wildlife, and go exploring) and the fact that we'd have a PR visa from the start (versus renewing a visa annually in Ireland until earning citizenship in 5 years).
However, those benefits in mind, Aus is still not Europe. It's not London, which we both love. Canterbury, Richmond Park, Kew, loads of wildlife and heritage. And planning ahead, I have to think about what I'll do one day when I'm older: prefer living in the comfort of Melbourne, or still miss the unique environment of London and the UK. This would be the only reason for going with Ireland, other than the fact that I could pretty easily secure a working visa with paid relocation.
So is it five years of hellish weather for a payoff at the end = EU passport for us both to move to London, and live somewhere slightly warmer in the South East? Or living for now and going somewhere pretty stable, safe, easy to drive around, and a good way to save money (though Ireland would also allow us to save).
What would you guys do in this position?
Jan 21st 2015, 5:49 pm
#2
Ping-ponger
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Dreich Alba
Posts: 12,006
Re: A tale of two countries: Ireland and Aus
Hi everyone!
I'd like to get some feedback from you guys who are deciding to move back to the UK. I think you'd add some valuable perspective.
The only two countries available to me to emigrate to are Ireland and Australia, both through the visa process and not through any ancestral route. I'll also be taking a dependent parent with me, which I've explored extensively and is an available option in both countries because of the country I'm coming from (South Africa).
So, both Ireland and Australia have their pros and cons, but as someone who hasn't yet visited either, I'd really appreciate hearing your thoughts on the best road forward.
I've weighed up a lot of aspects of both countries, including:
- the actual environment (types and size of house and garden, for example, variety of amenities and things to do like food markets, birding, national parks and such)
- transport options and ease of getting around (cars vs public - traffic congestion)
- the people / culture (in general, of course)
- the job market (depends on industry, of course, but in the digital marketing field there are jobs in both - but seemingly more in Aus)
- the economy / cost of living (which would allow me to afford to save more each month)
- medical options and costs (bearing in mind my dependant as well)
- weather restrictions (they're totally different climates - but is Ireland's cloudy/rainy weather more or less restrictive than Aus heat, or vice versa?)
- safety (in general, is it safer for someone in their older years to be living in either or both of the countries?)
Ultimately, I'm leaning towards Aus because of the weather (parent is freezing in 10 degrees, and loves getting out and about to take photographs of birds and wildlife, and go exploring) and the fact that we'd have a PR visa from the start (versus renewing a visa annually in Ireland until earning citizenship in 5 years).
However, those benefits in mind, Aus is still not Europe. It's not London, which we both love. Canterbury, Richmond Park, Kew, loads of wildlife and heritage. And planning ahead, I have to think about what I'll do one day when I'm older: prefer living in the comfort of Melbourne, or still miss the unique environment of London and the UK. This would be the only reason for going with Ireland, other than the fact that I could pretty easily secure a working visa with paid relocation.
So is it five years of hellish weather for a payoff at the end = EU passport for us both to move to London, and live somewhere slightly warmer in the South East? Or living for now and going somewhere pretty stable, safe, easy to drive around, and a good way to save money (though Ireland would also allow us to save).
What would you guys do in this position?
I'd like to get some feedback from you guys who are deciding to move back to the UK. I think you'd add some valuable perspective.
The only two countries available to me to emigrate to are Ireland and Australia, both through the visa process and not through any ancestral route. I'll also be taking a dependent parent with me, which I've explored extensively and is an available option in both countries because of the country I'm coming from (South Africa).
So, both Ireland and Australia have their pros and cons, but as someone who hasn't yet visited either, I'd really appreciate hearing your thoughts on the best road forward.
I've weighed up a lot of aspects of both countries, including:
- the actual environment (types and size of house and garden, for example, variety of amenities and things to do like food markets, birding, national parks and such)
- transport options and ease of getting around (cars vs public - traffic congestion)
- the people / culture (in general, of course)
- the job market (depends on industry, of course, but in the digital marketing field there are jobs in both - but seemingly more in Aus)
- the economy / cost of living (which would allow me to afford to save more each month)
- medical options and costs (bearing in mind my dependant as well)
- weather restrictions (they're totally different climates - but is Ireland's cloudy/rainy weather more or less restrictive than Aus heat, or vice versa?)
- safety (in general, is it safer for someone in their older years to be living in either or both of the countries?)
Ultimately, I'm leaning towards Aus because of the weather (parent is freezing in 10 degrees, and loves getting out and about to take photographs of birds and wildlife, and go exploring) and the fact that we'd have a PR visa from the start (versus renewing a visa annually in Ireland until earning citizenship in 5 years).
However, those benefits in mind, Aus is still not Europe. It's not London, which we both love. Canterbury, Richmond Park, Kew, loads of wildlife and heritage. And planning ahead, I have to think about what I'll do one day when I'm older: prefer living in the comfort of Melbourne, or still miss the unique environment of London and the UK. This would be the only reason for going with Ireland, other than the fact that I could pretty easily secure a working visa with paid relocation.
So is it five years of hellish weather for a payoff at the end = EU passport for us both to move to London, and live somewhere slightly warmer in the South East? Or living for now and going somewhere pretty stable, safe, easy to drive around, and a good way to save money (though Ireland would also allow us to save).
What would you guys do in this position?
The only reason I'd choose the "better for now" option is if I wasn't sure how long I have left to live. Otherwise I'd prioritise longer-term goals over "better for now".
Jan 21st 2015, 6:14 pm
#3
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 4
Re: A tale of two countries: Ireland and Aus
I'd say ask yourself what situation you want to be in 5 years down the road and take whichever option will put you there.
The only reason I'd choose the "better for now" option is if I wasn't sure how long I have left to live. Otherwise I'd prioritise longer-term goals over "better for now".
The only reason I'd choose the "better for now" option is if I wasn't sure how long I have left to live. Otherwise I'd prioritise longer-term goals over "better for now".
Jan 21st 2015, 6:24 pm
#4
WhiteRabbit
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,480
Re: A tale of two countries: Ireland and Aus
Dublin is very expensive. Very. It's also much smaller than London and not nearly as culturally rich.
Ireland is not dark and constantly gloomy. It is wet. It's similar to weather in other parts of the UK except for two things - more rainfall and higher winds.
Ireland is not dark and constantly gloomy. It is wet. It's similar to weather in other parts of the UK except for two things - more rainfall and higher winds.
Jan 21st 2015, 7:46 pm
#5
Dichotomus tinker
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,678
Re: A tale of two countries: Ireland and Aus
Hi everyone!
I'd like to get some feedback from you guys who are deciding to move back to the UK. I think you'd add some valuable perspective.
The only two countries available to me to emigrate to are Ireland and Australia, both through the visa process and not through any ancestral route. I'll also be taking a dependent parent with me, which I've explored extensively and is an available option in both countries because of the country I'm coming from (South Africa).
Ultimately, I'm leaning towards Aus because of the weather and the fact that we'd have a PR visa from the start (versus renewing a visa annually in Ireland until earning citizenship in 5 years).
However, those benefits in mind, Aus is still not Europe. It's not London, which we both love. Canterbury, Richmond Park, Kew, loads of wildlife and heritage. And planning ahead, I have to think about what I'll do one day when I'm older: prefer living in the comfort of Melbourne, or still miss the unique environment of London and the UK. This would be the only reason for going with Ireland, other than the fact that I could pretty easily secure a working visa with paid relocation.
So is it five years of hellish weather for a payoff at the end = EU passport for us both to move to London, and live somewhere slightly warmer in the South East? Or living for now and going somewhere pretty stable, safe, easy to drive around, and a good way to save money (though Ireland would also allow us to save).
What would you guys do in this position?
I'd like to get some feedback from you guys who are deciding to move back to the UK. I think you'd add some valuable perspective.
The only two countries available to me to emigrate to are Ireland and Australia, both through the visa process and not through any ancestral route. I'll also be taking a dependent parent with me, which I've explored extensively and is an available option in both countries because of the country I'm coming from (South Africa).
Ultimately, I'm leaning towards Aus because of the weather and the fact that we'd have a PR visa from the start (versus renewing a visa annually in Ireland until earning citizenship in 5 years).
However, those benefits in mind, Aus is still not Europe. It's not London, which we both love. Canterbury, Richmond Park, Kew, loads of wildlife and heritage. And planning ahead, I have to think about what I'll do one day when I'm older: prefer living in the comfort of Melbourne, or still miss the unique environment of London and the UK. This would be the only reason for going with Ireland, other than the fact that I could pretty easily secure a working visa with paid relocation.
So is it five years of hellish weather for a payoff at the end = EU passport for us both to move to London, and live somewhere slightly warmer in the South East? Or living for now and going somewhere pretty stable, safe, easy to drive around, and a good way to save money (though Ireland would also allow us to save).
What would you guys do in this position?
On the basis that you qualify for the resident visa for OZ & Ireland, that your heart (for now) is set on the *Europe* idea, then the choice is easy - Ireland it is
If common sense prevails, Ireland's economy is not that healthy, the [climate sucks], weather is temperate/cold, damp & freezing & the Irish are different 'kettle of fish' to the Aussie.
The SA climate mirrors the OZ climate for the most part, the economy is good (better than Ireland), people I think have a better outlook on life [sun makes people smile more]
Decision made ....
Is there anywhere else, somewhere in between, that perhaps you qualify for a visa?
Jan 22nd 2015, 7:53 am
#6
.
Joined: Jun 2010
Location: Peterborough, Cambridgeshire
Posts: 2,744
Re: A tale of two countries: Ireland and Aus
Australia might be easier for you to assimilate into i.e. same hemisphere as S.A.
Bigger, busier cities. More job opportunities. Christmas in the summer. Things that you are used to.
Bigger, busier cities. More job opportunities. Christmas in the summer. Things that you are used to.
Jan 22nd 2015, 9:06 am
#7
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,148
Re: A tale of two countries: Ireland and Aus
First off, if you've not been to OZ or Ireland, I would make a recce before making a final decision.
On the basis that you qualify for the resident visa for OZ & Ireland, that your heart (for now) is set on the *Europe* idea, then the choice is easy - Ireland it is
If common sense prevails, Ireland's economy is not that healthy, the [climate sucks], weather is temperate/cold, damp & freezing & the Irish are different 'kettle of fish' to the Aussie.
The SA climate mirrors the OZ climate for the most part, the economy is good (better than Ireland), people I think have a better outlook on life [sun makes people smile more]
Decision made ....
Is there anywhere else, somewhere in between, that perhaps you qualify for a visa?
On the basis that you qualify for the resident visa for OZ & Ireland, that your heart (for now) is set on the *Europe* idea, then the choice is easy - Ireland it is
If common sense prevails, Ireland's economy is not that healthy, the [climate sucks], weather is temperate/cold, damp & freezing & the Irish are different 'kettle of fish' to the Aussie.
The SA climate mirrors the OZ climate for the most part, the economy is good (better than Ireland), people I think have a better outlook on life [sun makes people smile more]
Decision made ....
Is there anywhere else, somewhere in between, that perhaps you qualify for a visa?
I think both locations have something for everyone and regarding economy, I find many people don't have a clue about Ireland. Ireland is doing quiet well and just because an economy is thriving on paper, doesn't mean it's better. Australia is like Ireland during the celtic tiger, where salaries (one of the highest in Europe) were far too high and house prices sky rocketed, so we know what can happen. Dublin is expensive, but any capital is, that's why I didn't pick Dublin. We don't have to argue that Australia/SA gets more sun, but Ireland is not constantly dark and grey for Northern Europeans. Rosslare strand would be one of the sunniest parts of the country and you can get more sunshine than some parts of south England. The West would be a bit wetter, but it can clear quickly and isn't as cold in winter + you get longer days in summer compared to England. Wind is no different to the UK and when a storm hits Ireland, it will be in the UK the next day. If you hate the UK weather, you'll obviously hate Ireland too. You can have a good quality of life in Australia, UK, or Ireland and some locations work out better for others. For me Ireland works, because I have a better work life balance here (compared to the UK) and can afford a bigger house with bigger garden. I hate bigger cities and like the fresh air, beaches and have plenty of activities along the west coast. At the end of the day it's personal choice. I've adapted quite well here and enjoy gardening, chilling on the terrace etc.
Jan 22nd 2015, 4:41 pm
#8
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 4
Re: A tale of two countries: Ireland and Aus
If common sense prevails, Ireland's economy is not that healthy, the [climate sucks], weather is temperate/cold, damp & freezing & the Irish are different 'kettle of fish' to the Aussie.
The SA climate mirrors the OZ climate for the most part, the economy is good (better than Ireland), people I think have a better outlook on life [sun makes people smile more]
Decision made ....
Is there anywhere else, somewhere in between, that perhaps you qualify for a visa?
The SA climate mirrors the OZ climate for the most part, the economy is good (better than Ireland), people I think have a better outlook on life [sun makes people smile more]
Decision made ....
Is there anywhere else, somewhere in between, that perhaps you qualify for a visa?
You have a view I think both locations have something for everyone and regarding economy, I find many people don't have a clue about Ireland. Ireland is doing quiet well and just because an economy is thriving on paper, doesn't mean it's better. Australia is like Ireland during the celtic tiger, where salaries (one of the highest in Europe) were far too high and house prices sky rocketed, so we know what can happen. Dublin is expensive, but any capital is, that's why I didn't pick Dublin. We don't have to argue that Australia/SA gets more sun, but Ireland is not constantly dark and grey for Northern Europeans. Rosslare strand would be one of the sunniest parts of the country and you can get more sunshine than some parts of south England. The West would be a bit wetter, but it can clear quickly and isn't as cold in winter + you get longer days in summer compared to England. Wind is no different to the UK and when a storm hits Ireland, it will be in the UK the next day. If you hate the UK weather, you'll obviously hate Ireland too. You can have a good quality of life in Australia, UK, or Ireland and some locations work out better for others. For me Ireland works, because I have a better work life balance here (compared to the UK) and can afford a bigger house with bigger garden. I hate bigger cities and like the fresh air, beaches and have plenty of activities along the west coast. At the end of the day it's personal choice. I've adapted quite well here and enjoy gardening, chilling on the terrace etc.
I think both locations have something for everyone and regarding economy, I find many people don't have a clue about Ireland. Ireland is doing quiet well and just because an economy is thriving on paper, doesn't mean it's better. Australia is like Ireland during the celtic tiger, where salaries (one of the highest in Europe) were far too high and house prices sky rocketed, so we know what can happen. Dublin is expensive, but any capital is, that's why I didn't pick Dublin. We don't have to argue that Australia/SA gets more sun, but Ireland is not constantly dark and grey for Northern Europeans. Rosslare strand would be one of the sunniest parts of the country and you can get more sunshine than some parts of south England. The West would be a bit wetter, but it can clear quickly and isn't as cold in winter + you get longer days in summer compared to England. Wind is no different to the UK and when a storm hits Ireland, it will be in the UK the next day. If you hate the UK weather, you'll obviously hate Ireland too. You can have a good quality of life in Australia, UK, or Ireland and some locations work out better for others. For me Ireland works, because I have a better work life balance here (compared to the UK) and can afford a bigger house with bigger garden. I hate bigger cities and like the fresh air, beaches and have plenty of activities along the west coast. At the end of the day it's personal choice. I've adapted quite well here and enjoy gardening, chilling on the terrace etc.
Jan 22nd 2015, 6:46 pm
#9
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,148
Re: A tale of two countries: Ireland and Aus
Common sense has prevailed, after receiving sponsorship approval overnight, with an invite to apply for a visa. It does make more sense, especially when considering my mom.
Think you're absolutely right.
Sounds amazing. It's this kind of feedback that makes the decision so difficult
Think you're absolutely right.
Sounds amazing. It's this kind of feedback that makes the decision so difficult
). For me it was important what kind of job I can get and what my salary offers me in that location with a small mortgage. You could have a great job in Melbourne, but only be able to afford a tiny apartment without garden, so if you like gardening would you be happy? The same could be said for London and you might have a long commute every day to have the garden, so apart from the weekends you won't be able to enjoy the garden. Other people are happy to live in a small apartment because they love city life and hate gardening. Others might be able to afford it all. I could have stayed in the UK, but would have struggled to afford a place half the size we have now with a much longer commute and less money at the end of the month. I also love Spain and it's great if you have money and don't have to work, so I rather holiday there and enjoy the work life balance here. It works out different for everyone.
Jan 22nd 2015, 8:26 pm
#10
Ping-ponger
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Dreich Alba
Posts: 12,006
Re: A tale of two countries: Ireland and Aus
You just have to think what's most important for you and where you can find it (sounds easy). For me it was important what kind of job I can get and what my salary offers me in that location with a small mortgage. You could have a great job in Melbourne, but only be able to afford a tiny apartment without garden, so if you like gardening would you be happy? The same could be said for London and you might have a long commute every day to have the garden, so apart from the weekends you won't be able to enjoy the garden. Other people are happy to live in a small apartment because they love city life and hate gardening. Others might be able to afford it all. I could have stayed in the UK, but would have struggled to afford a place half the size we have now with a much longer commute and less money at the end of the month. I also love Spain and it's great if you have money and don't have to work, so I rather holiday there and enjoy the work life balance here. It works out different for everyone.
). For me it was important what kind of job I can get and what my salary offers me in that location with a small mortgage. You could have a great job in Melbourne, but only be able to afford a tiny apartment without garden, so if you like gardening would you be happy? The same could be said for London and you might have a long commute every day to have the garden, so apart from the weekends you won't be able to enjoy the garden. Other people are happy to live in a small apartment because they love city life and hate gardening. Others might be able to afford it all. I could have stayed in the UK, but would have struggled to afford a place half the size we have now with a much longer commute and less money at the end of the month. I also love Spain and it's great if you have money and don't have to work, so I rather holiday there and enjoy the work life balance here. It works out different for everyone.
Jan 22nd 2015, 11:25 pm
#11
Just Joined
Joined: Jan 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 25
Re: A tale of two countries: Ireland and Aus
Australia has become very expensive over the last decade, and purchasing power is lower, ie. even if you earn a good salary, most items are relatively more pricey than they would be in UK region. Property prices are silly. The high wage economy and weakening dollar have made a difference. The people who do best in Australia are real beach lovers - beaches are free too.
Jan 22nd 2015, 11:43 pm
#12
Dichotomus tinker
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,678
Re: A tale of two countries: Ireland and Aus
In post #7 & #9 mentioned, its not always about the 'cost of living' (COL), the climate, its about lifestyle choices.
Comparing the average cost between two countries is not a true indicator IMO, its the city versus country (county or state)
For COL comparisons
Cost Of Living Comparison Between Australia And Ireland
Comparing the average cost between two countries is not a true indicator IMO, its the city versus country (county or state)
For COL comparisons
Cost Of Living Comparison Between Australia And Ireland
Last edited by not2old; Jan 22nd 2015 at 11:46 pm.
Jan 23rd 2015, 9:10 am
#13
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,148
Re: A tale of two countries: Ireland and Aus
In post #7 & #9 mentioned, its not always about the 'cost of living' (COL), the climate, its about lifestyle choices.
Comparing the average cost between two countries is not a true indicator IMO, its the city versus country (county or state)
For COL comparisons
Cost Of Living Comparison Between Australia And Ireland
Comparing the average cost between two countries is not a true indicator IMO, its the city versus country (county or state)
For COL comparisons
Cost Of Living Comparison Between Australia And Ireland
Last edited by Moses2013; Jan 23rd 2015 at 9:22 am.
Jan 23rd 2015, 2:23 pm
#14
WhiteRabbit
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,480
Re: A tale of two countries: Ireland and Aus
First off, if you've not been to OZ or Ireland, I would make a recce before making a final decision.
On the basis that you qualify for the resident visa for OZ & Ireland, that your heart (for now) is set on the *Europe* idea, then the choice is easy - Ireland it is
If common sense prevails, Ireland's economy is not that healthy, the [climate sucks], weather is temperate/cold, damp & freezing & the Irish are different 'kettle of fish' to the Aussie.
The SA climate mirrors the OZ climate for the most part, the economy is good (better than Ireland), people I think have a better outlook on life [sun makes people smile more]
Decision made ....
Is there anywhere else, somewhere in between, that perhaps you qualify for a visa?
On the basis that you qualify for the resident visa for OZ & Ireland, that your heart (for now) is set on the *Europe* idea, then the choice is easy - Ireland it is
If common sense prevails, Ireland's economy is not that healthy, the [climate sucks], weather is temperate/cold, damp & freezing & the Irish are different 'kettle of fish' to the Aussie.
The SA climate mirrors the OZ climate for the most part, the economy is good (better than Ireland), people I think have a better outlook on life [sun makes people smile more]
Decision made ....
Is there anywhere else, somewhere in between, that perhaps you qualify for a visa?