morpeth

I see your point, but I would prefer more outrage so UK and Western Europe start taking more measures to deal with the situation which sadly appears will be ongoing.

morpeth

There are different parts of Europe I lived, studied or visited dating back to the 70's- some now have news of terrorism , or areas very safe to go into- yes a different feel. It seems much is accepted now, that nothing can be done.

Pulaski

I thought multiculturalism was a good thing. Why does it need a "cost"?

So we get convenience stores open 18 hours a day, and ethnic restaurants, but in return several times a year, we have to accept a few people being blown to pieces or driven over?

Shard

Any outrage towards terrorists is warranted. But I don't think that's the pathway to dealing with 'multi-cuturalism'. I actually don't even think it's multi-culturism which is so much the problem as Islamism (which is certainly at odds with European culture). There needs to be greater public will and pressure for integration.

Pulaski

You can't forcibly integrate those who refuse to be integrated. "Separate but equal" was tried in parts of the US and South Africa, it didn't succeed in those places and it won't in the UK and Europe either.

Shard

I don't know, 'forcibly' does sound a bit charged, but you can certainly encourage integration, and discourage parallel culture. You can get rid of faith schools, for example.

morpeth

Isnt multiculturalism promoted as a benefit to Europe, and doesn't this mean accepting Islamism , and not pressure for people to adopt British and European culture ? It seems that the Muslim population that has been encouraged to move to Europe in increasing numbers has a percentage that simply prefers their own culture/ideology/laws - how does on in the current conventional worldview promote greater "pressure for integration" is the face of the multicultural agenda ? Seems a contradiction of ideology no ?

morpeth

Just a question, if one disallows Islamic faith schools ( not a bad idea considering what is taught), follow stronger policies to integrate the Muslim community, how does this go along with the multicultural agenda UK and European governments have ? If such a problem with integration why would this problem be increased by increasing the number of refugees/migrants/immigrants coming into Europe ? I have yet to hear a logical argument of why increasing the number of Islamists in Europe is a positive thing.

robin1234

Not sure that the Church of England, Roman Catholics & Jews would be too happy about getting rid of faith schools. Or do you mean going to a system more like the US, where faith schools have to be private schools, paid for by parents and endowments, rather than the taxpayer?

Pulaski

Aren't there already a number of private islamic schools in the UK, often with remarkably low fees (presumably due to sponsors providing subsidies)?

Shard's point is just a pipe dream as to put a stop to religious schools in the UK you would have to outlaw private education entirely, and homeschooling, and that would immediately add 10% to school rolls across the UK, so never mind any other reasons as to why outlawing private schools might not be legally possible, such as freedom and choice, the additional financial burden on county councils to provide school places on its own would make the idea of outlawing private schools a complete non-starter.

robin1234

No doubt there are private faith schools in the UK. But there are state faith schools too - most of them Christian or Jewish.

Pulaski

My mother taught at a Catholic state school for the last 25 years of her career, although we are not Catholics.

morpeth

May be a "pipe dream" today but I suspect as time goes on at some level of frequency and depth of terrorist acts closing Islamic schools, and many mosques will have to be considered. Imagine a private school with a National Socialist agenda being taught- in UK probably would be shut down(one way or another) fairly quickly.

feelbritish

What I can't understand is why would they want to move to a Christian country and culture in the first place and then insist on carrying on with their excessive faith which is contradictory to your adopted country's social norm? If European culture person moves to a Muslim country I cannot see them insisting on retaining their "culture" so blatantly. It would not be allowed. The West is now so "PC" that it is putting our own culture and people in great risk. Multiculturalism does not really work. Even in Canada these minorities practice and live in their own small settlements and do not integrate. In the new open South Africa they also stay in their own areas except that there they do not blatently walk about covered up from head to toe. I go swimming in the local pool and once a week we have ladies only for an hour and some arrive fully clothed and get into the pool. They huddle in a corner and do not acknowledge or talk to the rest of us. When I first saw them I greeted them but was ignored. The rules are for swimsuits only in the pool but no one will say anything to them for fear of being called racist. These people do not want to integrate.
I attended a Catholic school and we had loads of non catholic pupils including some Jewish ones. They attended the school for the education and provided they had a letter from parents were excused from RI. Ok this was in the 60's and 70's.

Shard

We're mixed up on this in Europe to be sure. A few years ago Merkel and others were pronouncing multicultralism as a failed idea, and now it's been renewed as a European ideal. I do think the problem is Islam, and mainly because it's a well financed and growing religion. If it were an exclusionary religion, in the way that say Sikhs or Jews are, there is less need for concern. It's ironic that just as we as Europeans are shaking off the superstition and irrationality of Christianity, another more potent mind virus has entered our society.