User Name

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4985190.stm

... comments invited ...

Angry White Pyjamas

Tricky one this...I can see abuse of it ahead personally.

Incidentally I do wonder how and why the ECJ has any jurisdiction over the UK still. And for how much longer it will have.

BigDavyG

Because a succession of UK governments have signed our rights away.
Rumblings about human rights laws seem to indicate though that this will soon change.

The worst part is that no other countries in the EU bother to follow through on any promises. Did you know that when the latest batch of succession countries joined a few years back, including Poland that only the UK, Rep Of Ireland and Portugal opened up their borders to workers from those states, despite there supposedly being no restrictions of trade within the EU.

No offense, but the Germans and French are a bunch of snivelling ******bags.

scrubbedexpat099

I seem to remember something on the BBC that said there were more Poles in Morecambe than the UK Gov had estimated would move to the whole of the UK.

Not sure that I have any issues with it, she needed the OP, that seems clear, so just a question of where it can be done. She does not seem to be asking for travel costs.

And looks cheaper than the UK cost so a saving to boot.

BigDavyG

I guess my prob is that there is no limitless pool of resources - the NHS has its limits. This is why cases where women try to get breast cancer drugs for example that they have been denied bother me.
You can't blame them for trying, and sure it would be great if everyone could have every treatment they want/need, but they can't so rationing has to take place, and in many instances the reasons for rationing may be as unfair as your postcode - but hey, life itself isn't fair, and with the NHS treatment you are getting is effectively taking cash out of the pot so somewhere someone will have to miss out.

scrubbedexpat099

If the system worked that way, then I might have some sympathy.

But it is not, so you have to make your own calls accoding to the options available to you.

Al systems are rationed, but no Politician seems willing to accept this and the consequences.

Partystar

Quote from link - "The European Court of Justice said the NHS must refund costs if patients waited longer than clinicians advised, even if waiting time targets were met."

I think that is wrong, the other part is okay, as they've already been doing this sort of thing anyway, but it's simply not fair to queue jump, which is basically what that means.

Partystar

Put simply – the NHS would have no budget issues, no waiting lists, no denying of certain drugs if patients turned up 100% of the time. The amount of DNA’s (Did Not Attend’s) in each trust are shocking, it’s an absolute disgrace & those patients are to blame for the problems.

scrubbedexpat099

If you read the case, the Court accepted a reasonable time based on individual circumstances.

What they said was not on was some arbitary waiting time that had no relationship to need.

Which seems fair enough.

scrubbedexpat099

And your solution?

Elvira

I think part of the problem is that all specialist care, including routine out-patient appointments, is hospital-based. This is different from any other country I can think of.

I'm sure at least some patients miss their appointments because they have far too travel, they are too disorganised to organise reliable transport to hospital, etc.

Part of the solution might be to have specialist community-based clinics, where consultants and/or senior registrars hold surgeries, i.e. they would still be hospital specialists, but they would spend, say, a couple of days or so each week at those community clinics, seeing patients who do not need extensive work-ups or tests.

Of course, if they could find a way of charging people for missed appointments, that would probably work a treat. But I'm not sure how, realistically, this could be enforced within the confines of the NHS ethos and the fact that it is just not geared up to charge patients for anything (other than Rx charges).

BigDavyG

But they should still have the decency to inform people if they are going to miss an appointment or try to reschedule if the time doesn't suit.
The message is simple - if you miss an appt you go to the back of the queue, no excuses. If someone kicks the bucket as a result they have no-one to blame but themselves and you'll soon see no-shows getting less and less.

Its just plain bad manners and by and large there's no excuse for it.

Partystar

I have many!

Partystar

Many trusts already hold peripheral clinics, IMO they are a huge waste of time & money.

When I worked in an NHS trust, we discussed charging patients for DNA's, but it's just not workable, we already had problems with the blatant lies that patient's would tell to get out of being put back at the end of the waiting list for not attending, I dread to think of the stories you would hear if you tried to charge people.

Partystar

Yep!

People don't realise how much of an impact this has, they don't show up, the doctor sits their twiddling his/her thumbs, patient then takes up another appointment space when they actually decide to attend, or more if they don't show up again (& it happens, I've seen people not bother to turn up 6 times in a row!).

It's even worse if someone does this for an op or doesn't starve as instructed. They waste that surgery time, all the people attending the surgery (surgeon, anaesthetist, nurses, techs), the bed for however long they were going to be using it...etc etc. It's very hard to get anyone else in for surgery at the last minute, because of the need to starve, stop meds etc etc.