nun

My feeling is that BREXIT will eventually be bad for the UK economy. It will be interesting to see what happens to the UK financial industry if the Tories go for a hard BREXIT and The City loses it's "passport" to trade in Europe...I can see there being a deal done in that area because it will hit a lot of powerful people's pockets, but if the EU and the UK are both tough on the migration issue, then The City might be in trouble.

However, whatever the economic results of BREXIT, its sociological results seem quite plain right now. The UK is less welcoming and is seen as bigoted by many foreigners. It feels like a backwards step and my UK friends who live in the EU and those that get EU funding for scientific research are very worried. Two are thinking about getting French citizenship and another two are seriously looking at leaving the UK to continue their research. I probably won't be retiring back to the UK because I frankly don't like the prevailing xenophobic atmosphere....unless Scotland manages to break away and join the EU....I think I could live in Scotland. I find myself as an Englishman who doesn't want to live in England anymore.

verystormy

First, I don't think you understand passporting and have probably read far too much on news sites such as guardian. Have a read of things like Moody's for a better understanding. The reality is even with a very hard brexit, the affect on financial services is very minimal. It only affects certain transactions. There is also a huge amount of other aspects that affect financial services.

With manufacturing, I also suggest you look at other news sites and factual sites such as dti to look at what we export to the EU.

As for xenophobic. As someone that has moved from Oz this year with a none British wife, I have not seen any or heard of any other than press trying to stir the pot. Certainly no worse than pre brexit or any of the other countries we have lived / worked in.

With regard science and science funding this attitude makes my blood boil and any scientists displaying such poor grasp of reality are probably the reason why UK science has been declining for a number of years - I am a scientist - they are clearly stupid. All of the major research institutes I know have as many staff from none EU countries as EU. Even space projects funded by the EU have large numbers of international staff. All of these projects collaborate internationally both with countries in the EU and outside.

Novocastrian

Eh? All nun said was that UK scientists who are funded by the EU are worried (because there's no hope in hell of that funding being replaced by UK sources).

EU funded scientists do of course collaborate with non-EU scientists, but it's bring your own bottle collaboration.

nun

I read a wide range of papers and articles. A different opinion does not necessarily come from being ill informed.

The EU recognizing new UK market directives would help The City, but that will probably be a bargaining chip in the negotiations.

But my main sadness is that I'm now ashamed of England. I understand that some people see BREXIT as a positive thing and there are many that are proud rather than xenophobic.....but it's easy for national pride to switch over to something less worthy and I see that happening in the UK, not so much in London, but I've seen it in the North East and I rode my bike through Lincolnshire a few years ago and I was shocked at some of the racism I heard in the pubs.

There is certainly lots of science funding that doesn't rely on the EU. As an example all my funding in the US comes from the US and Japan. However, the scientists I know do get direct funding from the EU to do HIV research and that will have to be replaced from sources like Wellcome or new UK Government grants to avoid layoffs. Given the uncertainty they are looking at offers to take their labs to EU universities. My friends that live in France have been there for 30 years so getting French citizenship will insulate them from being hostage to the negotiations.

Bud the Wiser

Interesting opinion from Daniel Hannan.

European Commission calls Britain racist while the Far Right marches in their backyard | Daily Mail Online

My own point of view is that your opinion does have some merit, but my feeling is that this 'xenophobia' is brought about more by the uncontrolled limits of immigration over the past few years rather than outright racism.

Moses2013

It's not always about the economy and sometimes a crash is needed to come back to reality. It won't harm the first time buyers who currently can't afford housing but Mr Smith with the fancy job and huge mortgage might feel it if he loses that finance job. I don't agree with the UK leaving the EU but we don't know yet and life will still go on for now. I recently crossed the border to the North and didn't notice the prevailing xenophobic atmosphere, so those Brits didn't seem too bad.

nun

I suppose my feelings about the UK could be construed as xenophobic themselves if I was to put on my US citizen hat......is it xenophobic to hate xenophobes?

Novocastrian

Since you specifically mentioned the north east earlier let me add that I've not noticed an increase in xenophobia in Newcastle. But Newcastle was the only place in the north east which voted to remain.

I agree with your other point though: I too am embarrassed to be English since June.

verystormy

But that is even more stupid when the government has officially announced that funding will be matched. Though personally I would like to see a major rethink on funding. I see projects that don't warrant a single penny but get tens of thousands. The current system is as bad as the CAP. All academics winge about funding, but the reality is there are a lot of them that shouldn't be getting funding.

verystormy

After living in 13 countries and visiting more than I can bother counting, by far the most racist country (excluding some African spots) was the USA, followed by France.


There are always odd individuals that are idiots, but that is everywhere and they are tiny and regarded as idiots.


People supporting Brexit and the measures recently announced are not racists. It isn't racist to think that an employer should where possible hire a local. It isn't unreasonable to expect employers to train people, it isn't unreasonable to implement an immigration system that brings in skills we need while excluding low skilled people that have driven down wages of those that can least afford it. In the UK we have seen millions of eastern European people arrive willing to work for less than a UK family can live on. The result in some areas has been disasterous.

Novocastrian

The government said (and of course governments never lie) only that they would fund projects already funded by the EU at the time of Brexit.

I suppose the projects which shouldn't get a penny aren't in your own field? And talking of the CAP, UK farmers benefit from that as do the other countries.

Empress Treeza has stated, nay, promised that CAP funds will be replaced until 2020 (nine months after the Brexit as now scheduled).

My, how generous!

Editha

Your statement that 'millions of eastern European people' have emigrated to the UK is wrong. The figure for Poland and Romania together is less than a million (figures from the Migration Observatory).

The fact that you perceive the figure as being much larger, unfortunately reveals a racist bias on your part. Next time you feel like making these kind of assertions, check your facts first.

christmasoompa

Sadly, it won't just affect Mr Smith with his finance job. I have three friends who have seen their small business go under since Brexit.

BritInParis

Millions of Eastern Europeans have moved here for work since 2004; they didn't all necessarily stay however. Many returned after the recession started. That trend has been reversing for the last few years as the UK economy has been improving in relation to the rest of the EU.

nun

I think we should stop calling people names here.