Need some POSITIVE info

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Old Apr 18th 2016, 3:24 pm
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Default Re: Need some POSITIVE info

Originally Posted by Downton Gabby
Hello,

I've been planning on moving to the UK as some might have read in my other posts. I read things here on BE most days and a lot of it has me worried about this move.

In a nutshell, it sounds like a person can't find a place to rent easily, especially if they are moving from another country and have a dog. Also, apparently being in my early 60's I may not be able to get a mortgage in a few years. And opening up a simple checking account is a monumental project as is getting a driver's licence. Add to that some people say that there is still an obvious class system in the UK that we do not have here in the US. And the weather is awful.

That's what I read here and it's scaring me.

Is everything really all that hard and/or unpleasant? Any good news or options anyone can share would be greatly appreciated, because I am just about to abandon this dream I've had for so long and I don't want to, but I don't want to struggle to find a nice place to live and to drive and have a bank account.
I'm 57 and moved to the UK 6 months ago, after living all my life in Australia. Although our situations are a bit different, as I moved over with my British spouse, here's some of my impressions in regards to some of the points you've mentioned.

Bank account was no problem, the bank wanted to see my Residence Permit, passport and birth certificate - done and dusted.

Driver's license - I can drive for 12 months on my Australian license, then I'll need to exchange it for a UK one. It's a straightforward process. I find driving here a little more 'hairy' than in Oz, simply because the roads are narrower where I live and there are usually cars parked either side. A bit of practice is all that's needed. I didn't have to get used to driving on a different side of the road, as Oz and the UK have the same systems, so coming from the US you might need to drive on quieter roads until driving on the left becomes automatic.

I'm not renting here, but I've read of many people's experiences here on BE - even if a rental is advertised as 'no pets' it's still worth asking the question, especially if you have a well behaved dog. Some people have mentioned bringing pet references from letting agents in the country they were previously living, probably only a good idea if Rover didn't chew the carpets or wreck the garden though!

Class system - if you're talking financial position, then every country has its wealthier and not so wealthy residents. Other things can obviously flow from that - education (public vs state), housing, and maybe even some jobs (the old 'it's not what you know, it's who you know). I don't know, maybe even what golf club you can join is linked to that. Personally, I couldn't give a rats what people do or don't have, and give even less of a rats what people think of me and the way I live. Here in the north-west I've experienced nothing but friendliness, curiosity about where I lived and why I moved, and requests to keep talking because people like my accent

If you're not bothered about what other people do and don't have, and are similarly not bothered about other people's opinions of what you do and don't have, then you're not going to have a problem.

Weather is as weather does. Me, I love the cooler weather here. Others may not. Personal choice.

My suggestion would be to think about what you have where you are - material possessions if they're important to you, housing, social life, friends, leisure and recreation opportunities, health care etc etc etc. Then work out (as much as you can) what your life may look like in the UK. If one country ticks way more boxes than the other, then you have your answer.

Best of luck whatever you decide.
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Old Apr 18th 2016, 8:23 pm
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Default Re: Need some POSITIVE info

Hi there! Comparing the way things are done in different countries can be like comparing apples with oranges, as we often say on here. People certainly aren't meaning to cast aspersions on you but simply telling you how it is here. It's just a fact that people don't tend to work much after state retirement age except for maybe a few hours, for company or a bit of extra pocket money. Some seniors volunteer. My mum did so for many years in a charity shop. She was unpaid although I gather that in some areas these roles can be paid. She lives in Lincolnshire. It is not only in Britain where working as an older person isn't usual. France is the same and their state pension age is 62 for both sexes. We Brits kind of assume when we see older people bagging groceries in America, that they need the money, maybe to pay for prescriptions (free over pension age in the UK). And we could be totally wrong on that and they just do it for the company or something).

Some employers do actively encourage older people to apply as has been said. I would also add that the kind of roles where age would be less likely to go against you would be in the public sector, and for fixed term roles like covering somebody on maternity leave (often a one year role here). They just hired an older person in my work's pensions office to cover a girl on mat leave.

You certainly would be well-advised to rent at first, just to decide if you like an area, and I agree that having a landlord to call on for any initial problems would help whilst you get to grips with all those things that are different in a new country. If you are in a position to pay six months rent up-front I think it could go a long way towards making a landlord suddenly feel much more dog friendly!

If you were to buy an automatic car and drive it around for a few months of the 12 allowed on your US licence, then take a few driving lessons, you should still have time to put in for another test if you fail the first one (as many as 50% of people in the UK fail first time. Taking the test 3 or 4 times is not at all unusual). My mum's gentleman friend passed his test in his 60s in an automatic which he still drives. But to be honest, depending where you move to, you may find that you can manage OK on just public transport. Neither my husband, from Boston, nor me, have ever been drivers.

I prefer a temperate climate to having humid summers that you then have to pay for with a frigid snowy winter, but then I guess that depends on whereabouts in America you come from. Few places are as easy to deal with year-round as the UK. And the further south you are in the UK, the better the weather usually.

You know I read something on a forum for Americans in the UK once that always makes me chuckle when I think of it. An American mum was absolutely outraged that her child called her teacher 'miss' which she thought highly disrespectful. We had to explain that is was the norm for the UK, like ma'am in the US or madame in France.
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Old Apr 18th 2016, 8:55 pm
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Default Re: Need some POSITIVE info

Unless you are pre-eminent in your field or intend to be self-employed then getting a job beyond a part-time position in a charity shop or similar is unlikely and no-one is going to give you a mortgage. That might differ from the US experience but then the UK is not the US.
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Old Apr 18th 2016, 11:02 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: Need some POSITIVE info

Downton Gabby has said she is self-employed. But, my OH is not pre-eminent in his field, yet is finding plenty of work at age 63. It depends on your skills and the job market.
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Old Apr 19th 2016, 2:37 am
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Default Re: Need some POSITIVE info

Originally Posted by rebeccajo
For every fact, there is an equal and opposite fact. Anywhere in the world. And no matter the fact, it might not suit what we are looking for in life.

A UK example:

The weather is mild. Oceanic. Temperate. What this means is it never roasting hot, it is rarely humid, and it is rarely deeply frigid. It means it rains a lot. Which means clouds. It means gray days. Wind speed can be high especially in springtime. Also because of the further position of the islands from the equator, length of days is very different than in the US. In the winter, you can expect less than 8 hours of daylight. In the summertime, the sky might never get as dark at night as what you are use to. Think blue velvet.

Those are all facts. As you can see, some are positives and some are negatives. Whether or not living in this type of climate suits a person cannot be determined by the facts alone. In the case of climate, being satisfied depends on what the person is able and willing to adapt to.
Thanks, rebeccajo! I appreciate the descriptions and thoughts.
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Old Apr 19th 2016, 2:39 am
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Default Re: Need some POSITIVE info

Originally Posted by Pollyana
And ageism is alive and well in the UK (as in many other countries) when it comes to jobs - it is harder to get a job when you are older. Thats not an ageist statement. Thats fact. Same as its a fact that the nearer you are to UK retirement age, the harder it is to find someone to lend you the money for a mortgage.
Thanks for your input, pollyana.
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Old Apr 19th 2016, 2:44 am
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Default Re: Need some POSITIVE info

Originally Posted by SanDiegogirl
Wow, I did not think I would get a reaction like this one - probably I should have expressed it better as being concerned that, on top of moving to another country with all the stresses that can bring, one would need to take out a mortgage at (in the UK at least) a reasonably mature age.

I'm not incredulous that someone in their 60's would not be in a position to just buy a house ....... however, in the UK, house prices (in any decent area) can be considerably higher than in the US and since the crash of 2008, mortgage lenders have been far tighter on how/when they issue loans. Unless one has a great deposit and/or a good income stream obtaining a mortgage might be difficult and unlike in the US (unless things have changed since I left the UK some 15 years ago) most UK residents do not have mortgages running into their 70's and 80's.

Unfortunately too, there are plenty of people on the forum of all ages who have found it difficult to find work, so ageism has nothing to do with my comments.

So, apologies for upsetting you and good luck on your move.
Thanks very much. I appreciate the explanation. I realize that a lot of people have a hard time finding work there, but again, I'm self-employed. In any case I honestly think so much depends on each individual's experience, talents, personality, confidence and frankly the vibe they put out there.

Thanks again for your reply.

Last edited by Downton Gabby; Apr 19th 2016 at 4:23 am.
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Old Apr 19th 2016, 2:47 am
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Default Re: Need some POSITIVE info

Originally Posted by quiltman
You MAY get a short term mortgage - 5years or so - if you only want a small one AND will have enough equity in the property to pay it off if you die before the term. However, any Bank or Building Society will want to see you have regular income to pay it off. you can get a mortgage which extends past retirement age but it costs more and the income criteria is strict.
Regarding jobs. Yes, once you reach about 50/55, unless you are in a specialist field it is VERY difficult to get a job, other than say, working in B&Q or similar, where they positively look for more mature people.The pay is poor though.
Being self employed is a different matter - you can work until you've had enough! Again, tho' to get any kind of mortgage , or loan, you'll need a couple of years certified accounts to prove income. Good luck to you , but regretfully life for us more mature folks in the UK is becoming a right pain.

Thanks, quiltman. I think it's important to know the differences between attitudes and opportunities in both countries. I appreciate your input.
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Old Apr 19th 2016, 2:50 am
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Default Re: Need some POSITIVE info

Originally Posted by Editha
After David Cameron was forced to admit that his family had used overseas tax shelters, an ex-chairman of the Conservative Party defending him, mentioned that Cameron 'went to a good school' (Eton), and 'came from a good family'. Cameron is descended from royalty, and also from slave owners; in fact, the use of morally dodgy but just legal methods to make wealth is entirely in keeping with his family history.

The Conservative panjandrum's views might seem antique, but an Institute for Fiscal Studies report a few days later confirmed that people who have had a private education earn 20% more over their working life than their peers who went to the same university and got the same qualifications.

So the British class system is alive and kicking. But unless you are someone aiming to reach the upper echelons of your profession, it doesn't impinge on your life.
Interesting...thank you.
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Old Apr 19th 2016, 2:51 am
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Default Re: Need some POSITIVE info

Originally Posted by yellowroom
That was the case the last time I took out a mortgage - ie the terms of the mortgage were up to your expected retirement age. It seems the market is relaxing slightly, but I don't know how easy it is in practice, especially if you are a new resident without an established UK credit record.

How to get a mortgage if you are an older borrower | money.co.uk

Could this be the end of ageism in mortgage lending? | This is Money

Getting a mortgage when you’re older - uSwitch
Thank you very much. I will read these tonight!
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Old Apr 19th 2016, 2:54 am
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Default Re: Need some POSITIVE info

Originally Posted by Moses2013
On a positive note:




Probably difficult, but compared to other countries/locations and depending where you want to move to in the UK, I doubt it's harder to find a place with a dog.








Getting a mortgage would be a lot harder in other countries, but the older you are the more difficult it is (as people have said).








Obvious class system? Well, if you've been to LA and compare Hollywood to Skid Row, or maybe Sandhurst vs. Diepsloot in Johannesburg then it's not that bad.








Weather awful? Well it's an oceanic climate just like you'd find in most of France, Belgium, Netherlands, Ireland, parts of Germany, Northern Spain. People live there and get on with their lives and every location in Britain will have different micro climates. No Tsunamis, no Hurricanes, extreme drought rare etc. Doesn't sound bad to me.
Thanks. I agree about the weather from what I've read. There are some on these forums that complain about it so much it makes me wonder...
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Old Apr 19th 2016, 2:56 am
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Default Re: Need some POSITIVE info

Originally Posted by MoshiMoshi
Mortgage aside, these are pretty much the same problems we faced moving to the US. 'Monumental project' is a exaggeration, but a lot of the practical/ bureauocratic stuff is a pain in the arse and counter-intuitive when you're new to a country. Having pets and no local credit rating always limits the properties you can rent.

Rather than looking for reassurance on these 'negatives', I think you should just brace yourself for quite a lot of initial frustrations and minor struggles, because IME they're inevitable when you're relocating. It's very draining to waste anger on them or (especially) take them personally.

I think you either misread or over-reacted to SanDiegoGirl's post. If you weren't already aware that it's not straightforward to get a UK mortgage in your mid-sixties and beyond, then that's an important point.
Thanks. You make some very good points here, especially in your second paragraph.

Last edited by Downton Gabby; Apr 19th 2016 at 4:24 am.
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Old Apr 19th 2016, 3:15 am
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Default Re: Need some POSITIVE info

Originally Posted by yellowroom
Agreed - especially if you have never lived abroad before, so many assumptions that things are the same as your home country can trip you up, and after lots of mental pratt-falls it gets quite wearing.

I admire the OP for taking on such an adventure at a time in life when many of us would expect to be making life easier for ourselves, especially doing it on your own without the support of an employer transfer or a spouse or family sponsoring the move.

Downton Gabby, it's natural to get cold feet but maybe think about ways in doing this that minimise your risk and maximise your flexibility. Don't worry about mortgages now - if you've never lived in the UK then your ideas about what is a nice place to live may change drastically when you get here.

Something you may not have considered for example: houses are constructed, wired, plumbed, and heated very differently to the US. Even something as simple as blowing a fuse/circuit left me struggling in the US - how people managed before Google I have no idea!! As a tenant at least I knew if anything serious went wrong then I could call the landlord's agent, but if it was my responsibility as the owner then I would be struggling as much of what I learnt about UK house maintenance was simply not applicable in the US.

Look for short term rentals first, yes it will be more difficult with a dog but not impossible - again it depends on where in the country you are going to be. But even this will be different for you - as a tenant in the US I found that I was responsible in for maintenance tasks that in the UK were the responsibility of the landlord for example.
Thanks for this thoughtful post
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Old Apr 19th 2016, 3:21 am
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Default Re: Need some POSITIVE info

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse
I'm 57 and moved to the UK 6 months ago, after living all my life in Australia. Although our situations are a bit different, as I moved over with my British spouse, here's some of my impressions in regards to some of the points you've mentioned.

Bank account was no problem, the bank wanted to see my Residence Permit, passport and birth certificate - done and dusted.

Driver's license - I can drive for 12 months on my Australian license, then I'll need to exchange it for a UK one. It's a straightforward process. I find driving here a little more 'hairy' than in Oz, simply because the roads are narrower where I live and there are usually cars parked either side. A bit of practice is all that's needed. I didn't have to get used to driving on a different side of the road, as Oz and the UK have the same systems, so coming from the US you might need to drive on quieter roads until driving on the left becomes automatic.

I'm not renting here, but I've read of many people's experiences here on BE - even if a rental is advertised as 'no pets' it's still worth asking the question, especially if you have a well behaved dog. Some people have mentioned bringing pet references from letting agents in the country they were previously living, probably only a good idea if Rover didn't chew the carpets or wreck the garden though!

Class system - if you're talking financial position, then every country has its wealthier and not so wealthy residents. Other things can obviously flow from that - education (public vs state), housing, and maybe even some jobs (the old 'it's not what you know, it's who you know). I don't know, maybe even what golf club you can join is linked to that. Personally, I couldn't give a rats what people do or don't have, and give even less of a rats what people think of me and the way I live. Here in the north-west I've experienced nothing but friendliness, curiosity about where I lived and why I moved, and requests to keep talking because people like my accent

If you're not bothered about what other people do and don't have, and are similarly not bothered about other people's opinions of what you do and don't have, then you're not going to have a problem.

Weather is as weather does. Me, I love the cooler weather here. Others may not. Personal choice.

My suggestion would be to think about what you have where you are - material possessions if they're important to you, housing, social life, friends, leisure and recreation opportunities, health care etc etc etc. Then work out (as much as you can) what your life may look like in the UK. If one country ticks way more boxes than the other, then you have your answer.

Best of luck whatever you decide.

What a wonderful post! This in particular:

My suggestion would be to think about what you have where you are - material possessions if they're important to you, housing, social life, friends, leisure and recreation opportunities, health care etc etc etc. Then work out (as much as you can) what your life may look like in the UK. If one country ticks way more boxes than the other, then you have your answer.


Thanks so much.
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Old Apr 19th 2016, 3:30 am
  #45  
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Default Re: Need some POSITIVE info

Originally Posted by LondonSquirrel
Hi there! Comparing the way things are done in different countries can be like comparing apples with oranges, as we often say on here. People certainly aren't meaning to cast aspersions on you but simply telling you how it is here. It's just a fact that people don't tend to work much after state retirement age except for maybe a few hours, for company or a bit of extra pocket money. Some seniors volunteer. My mum did so for many years in a charity shop. She was unpaid although I gather that in some areas these roles can be paid. She lives in Lincolnshire. It is not only in Britain where working as an older person isn't usual. France is the same and their state pension age is 62 for both sexes. We Brits kind of assume when we see older people bagging groceries in America, that they need the money, maybe to pay for prescriptions (free over pension age in the UK). And we could be totally wrong on that and they just do it for the company or something).

Some employers do actively encourage older people to apply as has been said. I would also add that the kind of roles where age would be less likely to go against you would be in the public sector, and for fixed term roles like covering somebody on maternity leave (often a one year role here). They just hired an older person in my work's pensions office to cover a girl on mat leave.

You certainly would be well-advised to rent at first, just to decide if you like an area, and I agree that having a landlord to call on for any initial problems would help whilst you get to grips with all those things that are different in a new country. If you are in a position to pay six months rent up-front I think it could go a long way towards making a landlord suddenly feel much more dog friendly!

If you were to buy an automatic car and drive it around for a few months of the 12 allowed on your US licence, then take a few driving lessons, you should still have time to put in for another test if you fail the first one (as many as 50% of people in the UK fail first time. Taking the test 3 or 4 times is not at all unusual). My mum's gentleman friend passed his test in his 60s in an automatic which he still drives. But to be honest, depending where you move to, you may find that you can manage OK on just public transport. Neither my husband, from Boston, nor me, have ever been drivers.

I prefer a temperate climate to having humid summers that you then have to pay for with a frigid snowy winter, but then I guess that depends on whereabouts in America you come from. Few places are as easy to deal with year-round as the UK. And the further south you are in the UK, the better the weather usually.

You know I read something on a forum for Americans in the UK once that always makes me chuckle when I think of it. An American mum was absolutely outraged that her child called her teacher 'miss' which she thought highly disrespectful. We had to explain that is was the norm for the UK, like ma'am in the US or madame in France.
Thanks for your post. I think some of the things you say, though you clearly didn't mean anything by them, are perfect examples of what truly bugs me regarding age! The idea that a 62-year-old person is considered a senior just seems ridiculous. It's like you've fallen off a cliff and landed in your 80's! I don't know how old you are, and maybe in the UK this age is "OLD", but it's not really the case here, or at least not as much. We celebrate being "Baby Boomers" and there is a movement really of knocking down those attitudes about any age.

I hope things aren't that different in this regard over there because that would really be unbearable.
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