In need of some advice
Jan 24th 2014, 9:01 pm
#76
Was in Canada, now home.
Joined: Aug 2011
Location: Devon
Posts: 3,388
Re: In need of some advice
Go to the CRA non resident tax calculator:http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/ebci/nrtc/s...age.do?lang=EN
Put in country of residence UK, then 'periodic pension payments from an RRSP. Then put in any amount you like, and click 'calculate'. The result will be a tax liability of nil, with an explanation underneath that this is because of the tax convention between the UK and Canada.
For the position on the support payments see this page of advice from Norton Rose Fulbright:http://www.nortonrosefulbright.com/k...ents-of-canada
For the support payments, the same rule applies -- because of the tax treaty the rate of tax is nil. Your ex should fill in form NR301 to be allowed not to deduct the withholding tax, but if he doesn't you could still claim it back.
Put in country of residence UK, then 'periodic pension payments from an RRSP. Then put in any amount you like, and click 'calculate'. The result will be a tax liability of nil, with an explanation underneath that this is because of the tax convention between the UK and Canada.
For the position on the support payments see this page of advice from Norton Rose Fulbright:http://www.nortonrosefulbright.com/k...ents-of-canada
For the support payments, the same rule applies -- because of the tax treaty the rate of tax is nil. Your ex should fill in form NR301 to be allowed not to deduct the withholding tax, but if he doesn't you could still claim it back.
Jan 24th 2014, 9:10 pm
#77
Was in Canada, now home.
Joined: Aug 2011
Location: Devon
Posts: 3,388
Re: In need of some advice
The Tax Convention is actually very clear: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxtreaties/i...idated1978.pdf
Quoting the Convention:
Article 17, 1 Pensions and Annuities: "Periodic Pension Payments arising in a contracting state and paid to a resident of the other contracting state who is the beneficial owner thereof shall be taxable only in that other state".
Article 17, 5: Notwithstanding any other provision of this Convention, alimony and similar payments arising in a Contracting State and paid to a resident of the other Contracting State who is the beneficial owner thereof shall be taxable only in that other State."
Quoting the Convention:
Article 17, 1 Pensions and Annuities: "Periodic Pension Payments arising in a contracting state and paid to a resident of the other contracting state who is the beneficial owner thereof shall be taxable only in that other state".
Article 17, 5: Notwithstanding any other provision of this Convention, alimony and similar payments arising in a Contracting State and paid to a resident of the other Contracting State who is the beneficial owner thereof shall be taxable only in that other State."
Jan 25th 2014, 3:49 pm
#78
Was in Canada, now home.
Joined: Aug 2011
Location: Devon
Posts: 3,388
Re: In need of some advice
By the way, maintenance payments are not taxed in the UK, so your support payments from your ex will be entirely tax free.
Jan 25th 2014, 9:24 pm
#79
Dichotomus tinker
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,678
Re: In need of some advice
The Tax Convention is actually very clear: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxtreaties/i...idated1978.pdf
Quoting the Convention:
Article 17, 1 Pensions and Annuities: "Periodic Pension Payments arising in a contracting state and paid to a resident of the other contracting state who is the beneficial owner thereof shall be taxable only in that other state".
Article 17, 5: Notwithstanding any other provision of this Convention, alimony and similar payments arising in a Contracting State and paid to a resident of the other Contracting State who is the beneficial owner thereof shall be taxable only in that other State."
Quoting the Convention:
Article 17, 1 Pensions and Annuities: "Periodic Pension Payments arising in a contracting state and paid to a resident of the other contracting state who is the beneficial owner thereof shall be taxable only in that other state".
Article 17, 5: Notwithstanding any other provision of this Convention, alimony and similar payments arising in a Contracting State and paid to a resident of the other Contracting State who is the beneficial owner thereof shall be taxable only in that other State."
"17.3. For the purposes of this Convention, the term "pension" includes any payment under a superannuation, pension or retirement plan, Armed Forces retirement pay, war veterans’ pensions and allowances, and any payment under a sickness, accident or disability plan, as well as any payment made under the social security legislation in a Contracting State."
Does that mean for a person returning back to the UK who is in receipt of a Canadian old age pension or CPP payment in the UK, it is not considered taxable income in the UK?
Jan 25th 2014, 11:41 pm
#80
Was in Canada, now home.
Joined: Aug 2011
Location: Devon
Posts: 3,388
Re: In need of some advice
Clarification please.
"17.3. For the purposes of this Convention, the term "pension" includes any payment under a superannuation, pension or retirement plan, Armed Forces retirement pay, war veterans’ pensions and allowances, and any payment under a sickness, accident or disability plan, as well as any payment made under the social security legislation in a Contracting State."
Does that mean for a person returning back to the UK who is in receipt of a Canadian old age pension or CPP payment in the UK, it is not considered taxable income in the UK?
"17.3. For the purposes of this Convention, the term "pension" includes any payment under a superannuation, pension or retirement plan, Armed Forces retirement pay, war veterans’ pensions and allowances, and any payment under a sickness, accident or disability plan, as well as any payment made under the social security legislation in a Contracting State."
Does that mean for a person returning back to the UK who is in receipt of a Canadian old age pension or CPP payment in the UK, it is not considered taxable income in the UK?
Jan 26th 2014, 3:01 am
#81
Forum Regular
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 121
Re: In need of some advice
Moving company question - With respect to moving, the moving company I plan on using say they have to have a UK address to send my stuff to - so I'm thinking that I will have to make a trip to the UK to find somewhere to live, open a bank account and then fly back to Canada, sort out moving my stuff back and then fly back to the UK again ... unless anyone can suggest any other ways of doing things?
Jan 26th 2014, 10:33 am
#82
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,139
Re: In need of some advice
Other people on BE have had their items packed and kept in storage at a shipping company in the US/Canada then shipped to them over here once they had a UK address. You should not have to make two trips to get this sorted out, and spend so much of your money doing this as a result. I think that was what you mentioned you were thinking of doing.
Jan 28th 2014, 3:39 pm
#83
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 203
Re: In need of some advice
Editha - re: spousal support.
So I'm getting conflicting info from CRA. The CRA person I spoke to said my husband's tax deduction for spousal support wouldn't be affected and he would have to pay a withholding tax.
Told my ex this and asked him to ring the CRA (as the CRA guy said he would need to talk to my husband).
Husband calls CRA and gets told by someone else that he should continue to pay my spousal support into my Canadian account and that I will have to pay tax on it.
I point out that I can't pay tax to Canada once I leave Canada as I won't be a Canadian tax payer (not intending to be).
Ex now annoyed and is going to ring up CRA again ... any light you can throw on spousal support and tax rules appreciated.
Islandwoman re: moving - I have since taken the plunge and phoned my parents and asked them if I could get the boxes stored in their garage - and they said yes and actually offered for me to stay with them as well. But there are ongoing mental health issues with them at the moment and I don't think staying with them is going to work for me - so I will look into the storage option you mention but I am thinking about using their garage to store boxes too ... just don't want to get too embroiled in very difficult family stuff as that would stress me out completely.
I'm slowly making some progress - have packed 5 boxes and my aim by the end of this week is to have packed more stuff. Am very aware of the huge amount of stuff I'm not taking though - and it's probably going to end up being donated as selling is timeconsuming and I've not had much luck so far with Kijiji listings. It's hard looking at the stuff I'm giving away - so much money lost. I'm just hoping that when I move to the UK I can find a decent landlord who won't mind me using their household stuff.
At the moment I alternate between complete and utter panic and getting on and doing things. The cold temperatures have definitely made me realise that I can't work in Alberta but I am very worried about how things are going to work in the UK - hoping I can find somewhere to live, a job and get settled without having a complete breakdown! Hopefully I'll feel a bit better by the end of this week when I hopefully will have more boxes packed.
So I'm getting conflicting info from CRA. The CRA person I spoke to said my husband's tax deduction for spousal support wouldn't be affected and he would have to pay a withholding tax.
Told my ex this and asked him to ring the CRA (as the CRA guy said he would need to talk to my husband).
Husband calls CRA and gets told by someone else that he should continue to pay my spousal support into my Canadian account and that I will have to pay tax on it.
I point out that I can't pay tax to Canada once I leave Canada as I won't be a Canadian tax payer (not intending to be).
Ex now annoyed and is going to ring up CRA again ... any light you can throw on spousal support and tax rules appreciated.
Islandwoman re: moving - I have since taken the plunge and phoned my parents and asked them if I could get the boxes stored in their garage - and they said yes and actually offered for me to stay with them as well. But there are ongoing mental health issues with them at the moment and I don't think staying with them is going to work for me - so I will look into the storage option you mention but I am thinking about using their garage to store boxes too ... just don't want to get too embroiled in very difficult family stuff as that would stress me out completely.
I'm slowly making some progress - have packed 5 boxes and my aim by the end of this week is to have packed more stuff. Am very aware of the huge amount of stuff I'm not taking though - and it's probably going to end up being donated as selling is timeconsuming and I've not had much luck so far with Kijiji listings. It's hard looking at the stuff I'm giving away - so much money lost. I'm just hoping that when I move to the UK I can find a decent landlord who won't mind me using their household stuff.
At the moment I alternate between complete and utter panic and getting on and doing things. The cold temperatures have definitely made me realise that I can't work in Alberta but I am very worried about how things are going to work in the UK - hoping I can find somewhere to live, a job and get settled without having a complete breakdown! Hopefully I'll feel a bit better by the end of this week when I hopefully will have more boxes packed.
Jan 28th 2014, 3:40 pm
#84
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 203
Re: In need of some advice
BTW I still haven't got a quote on the cost of moving but I'm trying to limit my stuff to the absolute minimum because single bedrooms in the UK are pretty small aren't they?!
Jan 28th 2014, 3:50 pm
#85
Was in Canada, now home.
Joined: Aug 2011
Location: Devon
Posts: 3,388
Re: In need of some advice
Sorry, but I can't think of anything more I can say on this. As I said the tax convention is actually quite clear. I've quoted it above. It specifically mentions spousal support in article 17.5.
So, despite anything the CRA are saying, I remain convinced that you are not liable to pay Canadian tax on your support payments. If your husband has to withhold tax, then you will be able to claim it back.
I'm editing this to add info, rather than another post. I referred to form NR301 above. I did make the error of saying your ex should fill it in. Actually, it is you. I suggest you do so when you are resident in the UK.
So, despite anything the CRA are saying, I remain convinced that you are not liable to pay Canadian tax on your support payments. If your husband has to withhold tax, then you will be able to claim it back.
I'm editing this to add info, rather than another post. I referred to form NR301 above. I did make the error of saying your ex should fill it in. Actually, it is you. I suggest you do so when you are resident in the UK.
Last edited by Editha; Jan 28th 2014 at 4:05 pm.
Jan 28th 2014, 3:56 pm
#86
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,139
Re: In need of some advice
Editha - re: spousal support.
Islandwoman re: moving - I have since taken the plunge and phoned my parents and asked them if I could get the boxes stored in their garage - and they said yes and actually offered for me to stay with them as well. But there are ongoing mental health issues with them at the moment and I don't think staying with them is going to work for me - so I will look into the storage option you mention but I am thinking about using their garage to store boxes too ... just don't want to get too embroiled in very difficult family stuff as that would stress me out completely.
I'm slowly making some progress - have packed 5 boxes and my aim by the end of this week is to have packed more stuff. Am very aware of the huge amount of stuff I'm not taking though - and it's probably going to end up being donated as selling is timeconsuming and I've not had much luck so far with Kijiji listings. It's hard looking at the stuff I'm giving away - so much money lost. I'm just hoping that when I move to the UK I can find a decent landlord who won't mind me using their household stuff.
At the moment I alternate between complete and utter panic and getting on and doing things. The cold temperatures have definitely made me realise that I can't work in Alberta but I am very worried about how things are going to work in the UK - hoping I can find somewhere to live, a job and get settled without having a complete breakdown! Hopefully I'll feel a bit better by the end of this week when I hopefully will have more boxes packed.
Islandwoman re: moving - I have since taken the plunge and phoned my parents and asked them if I could get the boxes stored in their garage - and they said yes and actually offered for me to stay with them as well. But there are ongoing mental health issues with them at the moment and I don't think staying with them is going to work for me - so I will look into the storage option you mention but I am thinking about using their garage to store boxes too ... just don't want to get too embroiled in very difficult family stuff as that would stress me out completely.
I'm slowly making some progress - have packed 5 boxes and my aim by the end of this week is to have packed more stuff. Am very aware of the huge amount of stuff I'm not taking though - and it's probably going to end up being donated as selling is timeconsuming and I've not had much luck so far with Kijiji listings. It's hard looking at the stuff I'm giving away - so much money lost. I'm just hoping that when I move to the UK I can find a decent landlord who won't mind me using their household stuff.
At the moment I alternate between complete and utter panic and getting on and doing things. The cold temperatures have definitely made me realise that I can't work in Alberta but I am very worried about how things are going to work in the UK - hoping I can find somewhere to live, a job and get settled without having a complete breakdown! Hopefully I'll feel a bit better by the end of this week when I hopefully will have more boxes packed.
Have a look and feel better: http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...32#post9039832
Jan 28th 2014, 3:58 pm
#87
Dichotomus tinker
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,678
Re: In need of some advice
Other people on BE have had their items packed and kept in storage at a shipping company in the US/Canada then shipped to them over here once they had a UK address. You should not have to make two trips to get this sorted out, and spend so much of your money doing this as a result. I think that was what you mentioned you were thinking of doing.
Jan 30th 2014, 7:02 pm
#89
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 203
Re: In need of some advice
Editha - just wanted to say I've read the links you posted up on spousal support - really helpful as my ex has just been on the phone to CRA and they've given him completely different information again and he's under the impression he doesn't have to pay a withholding tax - so I am going to call the CRA and write them a letter to make it crystal clear what I'm doing because I'm very fed up with the incorrect information that the people I've talked to are giving out.
Islandwoman - thanks for posting that link. It really helps. One thing that has happened since I last wrote is that I went to an event at my local university (where I graduated) and spoke to a professor there - and in our conversation she said it was "such a shame that noone explained that an MSW is now the entry level for social work" - I was so furious to hear that but, in someways it's really freed me now in terms of going back to the UK because there's no openings for me here in Ontario with attitudes like that. Am so looking forward to going back to the UK and to a job market which is less "closed" compared to the current Canadian market.
I'm also looking forward to the UK wet weather! The cold and snow has been so awful here lately.
I think I will have about 900 to 1000 UK pounds to live on a month (from spousal support) until I find a job - I'm hoping that will be enough to cover the basics? If my rent is around 350 - 400 a month (am going to try and find a place with bills included) ... I don't know how much food is in the UK? I'm hoping it's a bit cheaper. Got to do some research on that. If I can keep a roof over my head, food in my stomach and have enough money to travel around for interviews then hopefully I'll get through it all.
Islandwoman - thanks for posting that link. It really helps. One thing that has happened since I last wrote is that I went to an event at my local university (where I graduated) and spoke to a professor there - and in our conversation she said it was "such a shame that noone explained that an MSW is now the entry level for social work" - I was so furious to hear that but, in someways it's really freed me now in terms of going back to the UK because there's no openings for me here in Ontario with attitudes like that. Am so looking forward to going back to the UK and to a job market which is less "closed" compared to the current Canadian market.
I'm also looking forward to the UK wet weather! The cold and snow has been so awful here lately.
I think I will have about 900 to 1000 UK pounds to live on a month (from spousal support) until I find a job - I'm hoping that will be enough to cover the basics? If my rent is around 350 - 400 a month (am going to try and find a place with bills included) ... I don't know how much food is in the UK? I'm hoping it's a bit cheaper. Got to do some research on that. If I can keep a roof over my head, food in my stomach and have enough money to travel around for interviews then hopefully I'll get through it all.
Jan 30th 2014, 7:19 pm
#90
Was in Canada, now home.
Joined: Aug 2011
Location: Devon
Posts: 3,388
Re: In need of some advice
Editha - just wanted to say I've read the links you posted up on spousal support - really helpful as my ex has just been on the phone to CRA and they've given him completely different information again and he's under the impression he doesn't have to pay a withholding tax - so I am going to call the CRA and write them a letter to make it crystal clear what I'm doing because I'm very fed up with the incorrect information that the people I've talked to are giving out.
I think I will have about 900 to 1000 UK pounds to live on a month (from spousal support) until I find a job - I'm hoping that will be enough to cover the basics? If my rent is around 350 - 400 a month (am going to try and find a place with bills included) ... I don't know how much food is in the UK? I'm hoping it's a bit cheaper. Got to do some research on that. If I can keep a roof over my head, food in my stomach and have enough money to travel around for interviews then hopefully I'll get through it all.