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moving back to uk with child

moving back to uk with child

Old May 3rd 2016, 9:14 am
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Default moving back to uk with child

I want to move back to the UK I have been researching jobs for myself and boyfriend and I have been looking at houses to rent. My family Have said they will give me the Money I need to move back. My problem is that my boyfriend does not want to move back he wants to stay in Spain however we have a young child together and the child has my boyfriends surname (we were going to get married) he is the father and we Havre been together for 14 years. I have been told that with the fact that the child had his surname means that if he does not want to move back I need a permission form but all I can find online is permission forms for holidays from the UK where do I find the form for permission to move back to UK with a child? If my boyfriend does not want to sign this do I have any other rights to take my child to the UK?
I feel that it's the best thing for the family to move back together we been in Spain for 15 years (we met here) and we have nothing to show for it (other than our beautiful child) we are in debt and we have the same cycle all the time :- get out of debt then my boyfriend does not work for months even up to a year so it's down to me to support us which I did until we had our child now I am unable to work 16 hour days and support us. My boyfriend refuses to get contracted work (or even full time work) I feel trapped in Spain and I want to move back so is there any advice you can give me to help us move to the UK?

Last edited by rock_chick; May 3rd 2016 at 9:20 am.
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Old May 3rd 2016, 5:13 pm
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Default Re: moving back to uk with child

The child's surname is irrelevant. There is no form for "permission to move back to the UK with a child".

It is possible that you might not be asked for proof of the father's permission when traveling with your child intra-EU. However, if father does not agree to you moving with child, that could be a problem. You & child might well be able to travel to the UK, but what would you do if father went to court & accused you of kidnapping?

Best would be to sit down and work out an agreement with the father, put it in writing & get it notarized. If this is not possible, you'll probably need a court order (from the jurisdiction in which you currently live, I.e. Spain).

This is, a very short response to a situation which could become complicated. I hope it doesn't .

Last edited by Shirtback; May 3rd 2016 at 5:16 pm.
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Old May 3rd 2016, 8:57 pm
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Default Re: moving back to uk with child

Originally Posted by Shirtback
The child's surname is irrelevant. There is no form for "permission to move back to the UK with a child".

It is possible that you might not be asked for proof of the father's permission when traveling with your child intra-EU. However, if father does not agree to you moving with child, that could be a problem. You & child might well be able to travel to the UK, but what would you do if father went to court & accused you of kidnapping?

Best would be to sit down and work out an agreement with the father, put it in writing & get it notarized. If this is not possible, you'll probably need a court order (from the jurisdiction in which you currently live, I.e. Spain).

This is, a very short response to a situation which could become complicated. I hope it doesn't .
This is a situation being discussed in the USA forum at the moment too. The Hague Convention on child abductions - to which Spain is a signatory- means that you cannot take your child out of Spain without the father's permission. Since you and the child have different surnames on your passports, this is going to raise flags at the airport. You need to see a solicitor to advise you on this.

I know that France requires that both parents sign a document for each exit from the country to be filed at the local town hall - without which you wouldn't be allowed to leave the country.
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Old May 3rd 2016, 11:40 pm
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Default Re: moving back to uk with child

If you want something he doesn't want to give, you need to offer something in return. How does child support work in Spain? If you separate would he be made to pay? He might agree to let you take your child to the UK in exchange for concessions such as not seeking much maintenance and visits in school holidays paid for by you. May seem unfair but then it sounds like you are doing most of the financial support anyway.

As has been said, you can't go without his agreement, the surname doesn't make any difference except to make it more obvious if you did try to 'kidnap' the child and you both have different surnames.
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Old May 5th 2016, 6:58 am
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Default Re: moving back to uk with child

What matters is whether your boyfriend has parental rights, legally. That depends on the law of Spain. The law of the USA or even the UK is irrelevant, so what is being discussed on the USA forum is not necessarily going to apply to you.

You need some legal advice in Spain. Even if your bf does have parental rights, a court may grant you leave to take your child to the UK without his consent. Certainly, a British court probably would in the circumstances you describe.
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Old May 5th 2016, 7:54 am
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Default Re: moving back to uk with child

Originally Posted by Editha
What matters is whether your boyfriend has parental rights, legally. That depends on the law of Spain. The law of the USA or even the UK is irrelevant, so what is being discussed on the USA forum is not necessarily going to apply to you.

You need some legal advice in Spain. Even if your bf does have parental rights, a court may grant you leave to take your child to the UK without his consent. Certainly, a British court probably would in the circumstances you describe.
I doubt either a British or Spanish court would allow the OP to remove the child from Spain because she wants to return to the UK unless the father had been abusive or otherwise forfeited his parental responsibility. The court will rule what is best for the child, not the parents.
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Old May 5th 2016, 8:26 am
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Default Re: moving back to uk with child

Originally Posted by rock_chick
I want to move back to the UK I have been researching jobs for myself and boyfriend and I have been looking at houses to rent. My family Have said they will give me the Money I need to move back. My problem is that my boyfriend does not want to move back he wants to stay in Spain however we have a young child together and the child has my boyfriends surname (we were going to get married) he is the father and we Havre been together for 14 years. I have been told that with the fact that the child had his surname means that if he does not want to move back I need a permission form but all I can find online is permission forms for holidays from the UK where do I find the form for permission to move back to UK with a child? If my boyfriend does not want to sign this do I have any other rights to take my child to the UK?
I feel that it's the best thing for the family to move back together we been in Spain for 15 years (we met here) and we have nothing to show for it (other than our beautiful child) we are in debt and we have the same cycle all the time :- get out of debt then my boyfriend does not work for months even up to a year so it's down to me to support us which I did until we had our child now I am unable to work 16 hour days and support us. My boyfriend refuses to get contracted work (or even full time work) I feel trapped in Spain and I want to move back so is there any advice you can give me to help us move to the UK?
Extra info he was arrested for domestic violence less than a year ago and i am not asking for any child mantenince (not that he could pay if i asked for it anyway) and i am not asking for his financial support. I have asked him to move bacl with us but he won't even though he has no work here or money. I have told him that he can see his child whenever he wants.
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Old May 5th 2016, 8:32 am
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Default Re: moving back to uk with child

Originally Posted by BritInParis
I doubt either a British or Spanish court would allow the OP to remove the child from Spain because she wants to return to the UK unless the father had been abusive or otherwise forfeited his parental responsibility. The court will rule what is best for the child, not the parents.
I disagree. Speaking from my experience as a UK family lawyer, I can remember many cases when the court did think it was in the child's paramount interest to got abroad with the mother against the wishes of the father. My experience included children being taken to Nigeria and NZ, not just another EU country.

From what I've read, however, the attitude of the courts in other countries may be different. In particular, in the USA it can be difficult to get the court's permission to leave the state, let alone the country.
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Old May 5th 2016, 8:35 am
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Default Re: moving back to uk with child

Originally Posted by rock_chick
Extra info he was arrested for domestic violence less than a year ago and i am not asking for any child mantenince (not that he could pay if i asked for it anyway) and i am not asking for his financial support. I have asked him to move bacl with us but he won't even though he has no work here or money. I have told him that he can see his child whenever he wants.
You really do need to get legal advice from a Spanish lawyer. I think Spain has a legal aid system. The British Embassy provides a list of English speaking lawyers here.
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Old May 5th 2016, 8:56 am
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Default Re: moving back to uk with child

Totally agree that you need some competent legal advice, hopefully as Editha said there's some low/no cost legal aid service you can access.

I also hope that you are able to return to the UK without your abusive partner. You don't need that dead weight around your neck, and you deserve to feel safe and free from abuse.
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Old May 5th 2016, 9:50 pm
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Default Re: moving back to uk with child

Originally Posted by Editha
I disagree. Speaking from my experience as a UK family lawyer, I can remember many cases when the court did think it was in the child's paramount interest to got abroad with the mother against the wishes of the father. My experience included children being taken to Nigeria and NZ, not just another EU country.

From what I've read, however, the attitude of the courts in other countries may be different. In particular, in the USA it can be difficult to get the court's permission to leave the state, let alone the country.
There's no disagreement - read my post again. If the court decides that moving to the UK is the best of the interests of the child then it will rule so. However just because the mother has decided that is what she wants then it doesn't necessarily follow that it is also what is best for the child. These are two separate considerations.

The OP needs to seek the advice of a competent family lawyer in Spain before she does anything else.
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