Pulaski

I firmly believe that the key factor with provincial "accents" is not the accent itself, but the under-lying grammar.

It is, in my experience, quite acceptable to have a noticable accent so long as you are understandable because you use standard grammar. Unfortunately many people who feel that people are prejudiced against their accent don't seem to recognize that they are speaking with corrupted grammar that makes them less easily understood. ..... A case in point: who remembers John Cole, the political reporter for the BBC, who had a strong Irish brogue but impeccable English grammar?

TimEh?

No, you're O.K., my parents have passed away now.

My parents were dreadful snobs and why? Education? No! Wealth? No! Upbringing? No! It was because my Dad had a small business of his own (trucking, for heaven's sake). Mum's background was London (West Hackney/Islington) and from a very ordinary family. Dad's was pure Leicester on his Mum's side (seven generations of Freemen traced) and N.E. Lancashire on his Dad's (five generations traced).

I grew up that way and it took years for me to loose the attitude that people should be looked down on because of the way they talk. I was not allowed to talk with a regional accent myself (a blessing in hindsite) but my little sister rebelled and talked the worst Leicester she could come up with just to piss off my parents.

I must admit, I still cringe at some regional accents in the U.K. though (mainly East and West Midlands).

Vee

The thing that confuses me the most about the class system is the names given to different classes and why it upsets so many people.

I was brought up in Toronto so there wasn't very much class-ing going on. My mum would sometimes say things like "you can't go out looking like that.....you look common" or "she looks like mutton dressed up as lamb". My parents weren't snobs (father from Highbury Islington area, mum a Salford lass) but would still come out with gems like that.

When I moved to the UK I didn't see anything wrong with saying something along the same lines as my parents... "that woman sounds so common" when having to listen to people from Naaarf London. However my friends really gave me a right telling off for that. I still think that someone can look/sound common, but my friends seem to think it's better to say "pikey". What's the difference? Is this a class "thing"? Why is it wrong to say "someone is common" when the majority of people in the UK are "commoners".

I'm not trying to be snobby or rude or anything....I'm just confused.

V

NC Penguin

I associate the term "commoners" with working class although I expect the term, "commoner" originally meant to refer to those who weren't royalty or nobility.

In the UK, there's working class, middle class (lower and upper) and upper class. There's also "nouveau riche" but that's not used much these days.



NC Penguin

Yorkieabroad

I always thought there were just 2 classes - Yorkshiremen and Yorkie-wannabe's......

Lion in Winter

Wish I could be nouveau riche. I'm not proud.

Pulaski

No there are three, in descending order: Yorkshiremen, Yorkie-wannabe's, .... and Lancastrians!

TimEh?

I think of Yorkshire as the Texas of England

Ceri

I'm still waiting for the adoption papers to go through ... I want to adopt the lovely old dears

I still say you must have done something to upset them. Two little old grannies don't usually tell strangers at bus stops to F off.

Funniest story I've heard... I could just picture it. Ever seen the two Ronnies when they used to dress up as old ladies for one of their sketches... well that's the picture I had in my head.

Cheers

Pulaski

..... A whole other country?

Ceri

I wouldn't call someone a Pikey if I were you.... it means Gypsy (caravan park person....trailer trash in other words, it's usually referring to the Irish). It was used as an insult in my hometown... unless it means something different to other people/towns.

Cheers

TimEh?

I came up with that comment after experiencing "nowt" but Yorkshiremen over here when I first emigrated. They seemed to be - to a quiet lad like me - very in-your-face and not a little proud of their roots.

Did you serve in the US forces by the way? I've been meening to ask.

Vee

I think it does mean trailer park trash. That's why I can't understand why calling someone "common" is worse than calling someone "pikey".

Anyways, I've learnt not to call people anything...just to think it in my head instead. Much safer. The next time I see a woman letting her kid take a piss on my front gate I'll just politly ask her to step aside. Unfortunately this morning this is exactly what I found. When I asked her "do you mind?" she told me to "fack off ya wanka". I was going to say she was being common as a fisherman's wife but decided against it....she may have got her kid to piss on me.

Was she being common, a pikey or just bloody ignorant do you think?

V

MeganEkno

Was she being common, a pikey or just bloody ignorant do you think?

V [/QUOTE]

Trick question - All three??

TimEh?

I would say her behaviour was not quite top draw.