pondhopper2014

I agree. Also, it seems to me that I was reading some articles on this topic and at least half the people in the pictures were of caucasian descent.

If they don't do random stops, how then are they expected to "catch" people who might be in the country illegally. FACT, heritage wise, the population is primarily caucasian... and immigrants are typically not. That's not to say there are never any who are, but they are a minority in this case. SO, if everyone is pressuring people to do something, they shouldn't be annoyed when they do.

Also, yes, offer to show your "papers" too - if it makes you feel good to be antagonistic to lowly public servants who are merely doing what they've been told to do, but in reality? There are seatbelt checks on random corners in MY town (in Canada), also random drinking and driving checks... so I should be offended if they wave me through but stop the SUV behind me? Is it discrimination against SUV drivers? What's wrong with my car??? Why didn't I get the privilege of being asked... or if they DO stop me, does that mean they don't like Crown Victorias??? What's up with that?

Sometimes stopping is just random, and maybe it's directed - but it's probably directed for a reason, and gettin' mad at the messenger is just plain foolish. Because you're going to be mad if they miss "catching" them too.

Editha

Actually, I don't give a monkey's curse if 'they miss catching them'. To be 'mad' about it I"d have to be either very stupid or very racist, and probably both.

There are more important things to worry about than a few economic migrants trying to make a living.

holly_1948

No-one said that checks for identity papers on the street is wrong, only that it is not British, something you would expect of Germany. It is something you would expect, as Shakespeare put it "[Against] the envy of less happier lands, This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England".

Yes, it is something you would expect in less happier lands, not in England, let us not destroy England this way.

As was said in criminal trial addressed to this very issue, Willcock vs. Muckle by the Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales " ... Further, in this country we have always prided ourselves on the good feeling that exists between the police and the public and such action [identity card demands] tends to make the people resentful of the acts of the police and inclines them to obstruct the police instead of to assist them."

The UKBA is destroying the trust the public has in the police and authority generally. That does not belong in England any more than having GCHQ spy on Americans as a servant of the NSA in order to circumvent American laws that prevent the NSA doing this spying on their own people for themselves.

We will end up with a society in which people go out of their way to avoid the police instead of going out of their way to strike up a friendly conversation with the local bobby.

Editha

Actually, I think it is very unlikely that police, or other officials in Germany, would accost people on the street and demand to see their identity papers because they looked foreign. Germans have been rather sensitive about that kind of thing since around 1945, the same time they gave up "racial profiling".

TheEmperorIsNaked

Interesting take.....no; I would not 'feel good' at all! And am not foolish, plain or otherwise..

Yes. But Governments globally have instilled the fear of mass invasion. Goering's statement at the Nuremburg trial showed the methodology very well.

This is an inexorable slide. Putting Police into black unifroms (certainly here-Aus now, and the US), is a deliberate and calculated act, to instil the perception of strong authority. Frankly, I don't believe nowadays that the 'security' services of any country I'm familiar with, are expected to be the 'friendly bobby'. They are now trained to be a security arm of Government and nothing else.

Ironic isn't it? The situation got so out of control that Germany over half a century later is very careful about such things.
It is a salutary lesson on what unchecked power can do.

Editha

I think we have just fulfilled Godwin's law. Since I referenced Germany first, maybe I should take the blame, though I didn't mention Nazis. Either way, it probably means this discussion has gone on long enough.

TheEmperorIsNaked

Me neither. I was referring to the principle of controlling the masses, it was not just the methodology of...er, 'those' people.
So blame is not an issue.

Godwins Law was in truth evoked by Basil Fawlty. He was at pains never to mention the war,-but unfortunately was unable to avoid it.

holly_1948

Actually I had those seat belt checks in Canada in mind when thinking about Shakespeare's phrase "less happier lands".

Anyway, I think we have a consensus that people quietly going about their business doing nothing untoward should be left in peace unless specifically identified as suspects in advance. And quasi authority figures bluffing people into believing they have powers which they do not is just plain un-British (even if you think it is morally justified).