Pollyrodger

Hi Folks

I’m a British Ex Dubai (UAE) Expat and in a bit of a predicament.

I had to leave UAE due to illness and I’m in agitated discussions with RAKBANK over a credit card debt.

Yes I know all the issues with regards working within your own budget but I really had no choice and I will not even attempt to give you a sob story.

The bank are stating some T&Cs to me that are from 2011 for a RAK BANK Titanium Credit Card.

I mean they are saying “here are the T&Cs” and Im supposed to believe them which I may add, I don’t.

I personally don’t believe these T&Cs to be true and accurate and that I never signed up to them.

Im asking for a big favour from anyone who can assist me.

Can someone who has a RAKBANK Titanium credit card pre 2011 and has an old copy stuffed away somewhere be willing to scan and share with me?

Its causing immense stress to my family and I and it would at least give closure one way or another.

I will pay you for any time but they have to be from 2011 and before.

Appreciate any assistance

Pollyrodger

co durham boy

They have no jurisdiction to collect over unsecured debt . Tell them you'll call the police the next time , or just tell them to fu** off .

scrubbedexpat141

How much is the debt? Worth actually worrying about?

co durham boy

The bank would have made a provision for it and closed it off , they'll have just farmed it out to a third party paper chaser . I know a few people who were in the same boat , they just basically laid the law down themselves , one guy did go to the police and reported the company for harassment , got a crime number the lot .

Letter from his brief off to said company and boom , not a word . I'm not advocating knocking people but the whole moral judgement on debt in the Gulf is suspect in any case .

Leave before you can't or worse still get locked up .

scrubbedexpat141

Fair enough. I don't agree with not paying what you owe but circumstances are difficult sometimes and if the options are leg it or jail, I know what I'd do.

co durham boy

Never shed any tears over instutions that will lock you up for owing money chief .

Pollyrodger

Hi Folks
Firstly thanks for all the words and not judging me too much.
We have all seen the sort of negative advice that you can get on here. Im not saying I should not receive it but If I want an ass kicking I will ask my mammy ;-)
Unfortunately for all the expats living in the UAE they can very much chase you in the UK if there are particulars mentioned the T&Cs about jurisdiction.
I know of at least 10 people personally who are in the midst of correspondence between solicitors acting on behalf of RAKBANK; First Gulf Bank.
All the same stories; basically we all ran and left debt and now they are chasing it down.
Now they seem to be targeting people who have property.
Im not joking you when I say I know people who are in payment plans to pay back the debt.
That aside if anyone who knows anyone who could supply me an older copy of the RAKBANK T&Cs it would be very much appreciated.
BTW – Some of the people who are being chased left Dubai in 2005.

Cheers

Polly Rodger

Pollyrodger

Scamp the debt is £20K GBP

co durham boy

It makes no difference if they have property or a lawn mower , they have no legal right on it , it's pure nonsense . It's 20K of unsecured credit card taken out in a foreign sovereign state .

The game is that there will be some people who panic and start paying cash back and that's a plus for the bank and the recovery company because the debt is written off .

Just tell them straight that they have no legal right and to "Get Ta Fu**!"

Pollyrodger

Hi co durham boy

If only I could tell them to “Get tae feck”

If only.
I can tell you that many expats are having CCJs issued and standing charges awarded against them. It would seem that there is a real misunderstanding of the laws but it all depends on the T&Cs.

For example if you have a clause that says something like this:-
--------------------------------------
Governing Law
The terms and conditions are governed by and shall be construed in accordance with the laws of the United Arab Emirates and the cardholder hereby submits irrevocably to the non-exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of the Untited Arab Emirates. Such submission, shall however not prejudice the right’s of “DODY FU**ING UAE BANK” to bring proceedings against the cardholder in any other jurisdiction.
--------------------------------------

So this non-exclusive jurisdiction is what County Court judges in the UK are claiming that they now have the rights to chase you here for the debt.
Whilst I admit that they do try scare tactics I have first-hand knowledge of at least x10 expatriates who have been to court and are either considering bankruptcy or are in the negotiations of a payment plan.
They now have CCJs against them which really screws up your credit file. I have my MP and all sorts of people involved.

Its going to snow-ball here and Im a member of a group who are collating ideas and actions to bring this to the attention of the government and law society as I believe its illegal. However when you have County Court judges voting in favour of the Middle Eastern Clients then already the odds are stacking up against you.
Would you know anyone who would be able to share any old T&Cs of RAKBANK for the titanium credit card from 2011?

Cheers

Polly Rodger

Pollyrodger

Hi Co durham boy

I wish I could tell them to “ Please go away mucker, you are now starting to irritate me”

Or words to that effect.

Unfortunately Im in a small group of people in similar positions withy 50% of these already having CCJs go against them. Some are in Payment plans; some are considering bankruptcy.

This is happening and the County Court Judges are going on the side of the Banks.

See a typical clause below:-


=====

Governing Law

The terms and conditions are governed by and shall be construed in accordance with the laws of the United Arab Emirates and the cardholder hereby submits irrevocably to the non-exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of the United Arab Emirates. Such submission, shall however not prejudice the rights of “ Insert name of shitty UAE bank here” to bring proceedings against the cardholder in any other jurisdiction

=====

Note the non-exclusive jurisdiction clause which is why the judges are allowing these cases to be heard in the UK. Please note the UAE banks have UK solicitors represent them.

Initially they will use strong arm tactics to scaremonger people but ultimately they will take you to court if you have money or sizable assets e.g. a house.

As I say I am a member of a group who have all contacted their MPs and some have very sad stories but ultimately the UK is letting this happen. It would not happen the other way.

Solicitors are also very unsure as well as Barristers.

Most tell you to agree a payment plan before it gets to court.

Have a read of the link below and also google Coyle White & Devine and dubai debts

http://www.justanswer.com/uk-law/8zt...html#re.v/184/

Now I would really appreciate if anyone has a proper copy of any T&Cs for RAKBANK Titanium card form 2011. ;-)

Thanks

Polly Rodger

norsk

I am pretty sure that even if the bank has included some bullshit about jurisdiction in their T&C's this does not mean that it is legal for them (or any third party factoring companies for that matter) to go after you in the UK.

There is no jurisdiction by the law in the UK plain and simple. Don't forget that these collectors know that bullying people works in let's say 50% of the cases.

Unless you get independent legal advice in the UK saying they have a case I would tell them to sod off. Obviously they are not going to give up easily, but neither would you if the jackpot was 20K...

Solicitors talking costs nothing in the bigger picture. If they actually had a case with a leg to stand on they would take you straight to court!

co durham boy

Read the above , they have no right to the money . With all due respect they want people like you to worry and pay up

Pollyrodger

Lads and Lassies

Im not at the court stage yet.

What would you say to the people who have been to court and the County Court Judge has awarded a standing charge as they believe these banks using their UK solicitors have a right to chase you because of this Jurisdiction clause.

Regardless of whether we get scared we cannot fight if the Judicial system is against us or doesn’t understand or is confused or dare I say it has been wined and dined by the said solicitors etc.

As I say Im merely getting ready to defend in court and I need these T&Cs as I can’t find my copy.

What I was sent was a scruffy document set with a clause referring to jurisdiction.

The T&Cs have no date and no signature from myself or anyone. These could have been created yesterday and as I don’t have my original copy I can’t contest.

Quite how this could be used in a UK court is astonishing. However its exactly this type of document that is being used and the judges are accepting it.

Comments welcome

Polly Rodger

co durham boy

If your T&C's have no date or cannot be related to your agreement in a legal way then it's pure shite . Plus there's no recipricol agreement in place between the UK and the UAE .

These firms take the debt on and try every trick in the book . some justified some not . If you're really worried and concerned take some proper legal advice on the matter .