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Old Oct 17th 2017, 1:07 pm   #16
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Default Re: renew the UK driving licence

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Originally Posted by sicklyman View Post
I've got a paper license. Never got the photocard and have no intention of doing so. So my license is valid until I'm 70 which is a fair way away. Never had any hassles renting in the UK with it and been non-resident almost every year since 1998. It also has a c/o UK address on it (always has done). Have also been covered by car rental insurance on the one occasion that someone ran into me while I was renting.

Never been done for speeding in the UK as I generally know what the speed limit is. I have though had speeding tickets in four or five countries... very belatedly... which always come with an "admin fee" to make the sting harsher. I believe the rental companies have a legal obligation to pass the fine on to you and bill your credit card. If they do in, say Portugal, it's highly likely they do in the UK too. The only way to therefore ensure you don't pay a fine if you get one is to cancel your credit card after you finish the rental. Bit drastic.
if you are using your UK DL when renting in the UK and you get into an accident your insurance cover will be void, because legally you are not a resident in the UK and hence you shouldn't be using your UK DL to rent.
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Old Oct 17th 2017, 1:16 pm   #17
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Default Re: renew the UK driving licence

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Originally Posted by mission View Post
if you are using your UK DL when renting in the UK and you get into an accident your insurance cover will be void, because legally you are not a resident in the UK and hence you shouldn't be using your UK DL to rent.
It's not as cut-and-dried as that. I rented a car in Ireland last year, and had a detailed email conversation with the hire car company who advised that it was ok. An invalid driving licence doesn't necessarily invalidate insurance.
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Old Oct 17th 2017, 1:20 pm   #18
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Default Re: renew the UK driving licence

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Originally Posted by Bahtatboy View Post
It's not as cut-and-dried as that. I rented a car in Ireland last year, and had a detailed email conversation with the hire car company who advised that it was ok. An invalid driving licence doesn't necessarily invalidate insurance.
unless the policy says so...
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Old Oct 18th 2017, 8:10 am   #19
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Default Re: renew the UK driving licence

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Originally Posted by Bahtatboy View Post
It's not as cut-and-dried as that. I rented a car in Ireland last year, and had a detailed email conversation with the hire car company who advised that it was ok. An invalid driving licence doesn't necessarily invalidate insurance.
that's interesting, because every time i have hired a car in the UK, which is at least once or twice a year, they explicitly tell me that i cannot hire using my UK DL since i am not a resident and hence the insurance policy would be void.
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Old Oct 18th 2017, 8:19 am   #20
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Default Re: renew the UK driving licence

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Originally Posted by mission View Post
that's interesting, because every time i have hired a car in the UK, which is at least once or twice a year, they explicitly tell me that i cannot hire using my UK DL since i am not a resident and hence the insurance policy would be void.
I make sure either a) I keep a copy of emails in which they confirm that, or b) if the conversation is oral, I keep contemporaneous records.
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Old Oct 18th 2017, 8:48 am   #21
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Default Re: renew the UK driving licence

I think the whole is it or isn't it discussion is a massive grey area..... if they pay out then fine, however, we all know how good insurance companies are about wriggling out of paying on a technicality..... but thats obviously 'if' they know you are a non resident / know about the technicality.
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Old Oct 18th 2017, 8:55 am   #22
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Default Re: renew the UK driving licence

Quote:
Originally Posted by sicklyman View Post
I've got a paper license. Never got the photocard and have no intention of doing so. So my license is valid until I'm 70 which is a fair way away. Never had any hassles renting in the UK with it and been non-resident almost every year since 1998. It also has a c/o UK address on it (always has done). Have also been covered by car rental insurance on the one occasion that someone ran into me while I was renting.

Never been done for speeding in the UK as I generally know what the speed limit is. I have though had speeding tickets in four or five countries... very belatedly... which always come with an "admin fee" to make the sting harsher. I believe the rental companies have a legal obligation to pass the fine on to you and bill your credit card. If they do in, say Portugal, it's highly likely they do in the UK too. The only way to therefore ensure you don't pay a fine if you get one is to cancel your credit card after you finish the rental. Bit drastic.
Been flashed loads of times over the years in the UK and have never had one come back to me.

I'm not saying the hire car companies don't give the Police / courts your details, more that they don't see the value in chasing up the fine...... As there would be no way for them to apply points to a foreign licence.

As far as I understand, the hire car companies cannot legally add a fine to your CC automatically as speeding is a criminal charge and carries a penalty (with the allowance / option for you to argue it in a court). This is unlike parking, driving in a bus lane etc which just carries a fine which they can add on as it isn't a criminal charge and carries no penalty.
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Old Oct 18th 2017, 10:28 am   #23
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Default Re: renew the UK driving licence

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Originally Posted by mission View Post
if you are using your UK DL when renting in the UK and you get into an accident your insurance cover will be void
I'll ask next time I rent and see what they say. I've only ever had experience of someone hitting me, not the other way round.
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Old Oct 18th 2017, 11:05 am   #24
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Default Re: renew the UK driving licence

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Originally Posted by jam25mack View Post
As far as I understand, the hire car companies cannot legally add a fine to your CC automatically as speeding is a criminal charge and carries a penalty (with the allowance / option for you to argue it in a court). This is unlike parking, driving in a bus lane etc which just carries a fine which they can add on as it isn't a criminal charge and carries no penalty.
Found this

https://www.intltravelnews.com/2015/...icket-overseas

The bit at the bottom of the page, last letter from one Anton Prole and the bit from the website people themselves are the interesting parts. It suggests that most UK car rental company contracts have in their fine print that you accept any traffic fines and that they can be automatically deducted.
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Old Oct 18th 2017, 1:03 pm   #25
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Default Re: renew the UK driving licence

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Originally Posted by mission View Post
i'm not so sure it's as strident as that.
I renewed my DL back in 2012
The renewal process has changed greatly since 2012.
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Old Oct 18th 2017, 1:06 pm   #26
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Default Re: renew the UK driving licence

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The renewal process has changed greatly since 2012.
ah fair play then.
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Old Oct 23rd 2017, 1:36 pm   #27
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Default Re: renew the UK driving licence

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Originally Posted by Bahtatboy View Post
It's not as cut-and-dried as that. I rented a car in Ireland last year, and had a detailed email conversation with the hire car company who advised that it was ok. An invalid driving licence doesn't necessarily invalidate insurance.
Unless the car hire company was willing to put in a formal letter (not an email) that they understood you were driving on a UK licence despite not being permanently resident in the UK and their insurers accepted and agreed to this, I wouldn't trust anything they said. After all, insurance companies are stuffed with people whose job it is to find reasons *not* to pay out. The expats who keep a car in the UK, insured under a standard domestic UK policy, are running a particularly serious risk, given that pretty much every private UK motor insurance contract includes a clause requiring the insured persons to be permanently resident.

As has been said, though, it's a legal grey area. People have had contradictory responses from the DVLA when they asked directly (when I asked they said flat-out that I should not try and drive on my UK licence while visiting the UK, and they also confirmed that the Dubai traffic police are supposed to take your UK licence off you when you swap to a UAE licence and send the UK one back to Swansea, which of course never actually happens).

Sooner or later there's going to be a legal test case about it. My view was that I didn't want to run the risk of being involved in it, so I only ever drove on my UAE licence when in the UK. It meant I couldn't drive any private cars (it would obviously have been a serious money-saver if I could), but I knew I was unambiguously on the right side of the law.

As for actually renewing while an expat, I did it, giving my parents' house as my residential address. This was about 5 years ago. It was a risk that I probably wouldn't try again. During the online renewal process, a number of clear warnings about misrepresentation were displayed, and apparently people *have* been caught out when the DVLA did their due diligence. You pays your money, etc.

Last edited by Eeyore; Oct 23rd 2017 at 1:44 pm.
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Old Oct 24th 2017, 10:29 am   #28
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Default Re: renew the UK driving licence

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Originally Posted by Eeyore View Post
Sooner or later there's going to be a legal test case about it.
considering the number of renters that could potentially have invalid insurance each year, it's telling that you're suggesting there hasn't been one.

I've written to Avis about this and have yet to hear from them, but when I do I'll report back.
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Old Oct 24th 2017, 2:48 pm   #29
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Default Re: renew the UK driving licence

I just want to renew the licence in order to keep it validate so I can use it when I return back home. I do not want to go through the all the test if it's expired. I do not intend to rent a car using the uk licence.
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Old Oct 24th 2017, 3:20 pm   #30
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Default Re: renew the UK driving licence

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I just want to renew the licence in order to keep it validate so I can use it when I return back home. I do not want to go through the all the test if it's expired. I do not intend to rent a car using the uk licence.
If by "return back home" you mean returning to UK permanently, then renew it when you get back -- you don't need to re-take the test.

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