HiHo

Benny, you need to email your GP your proof of vaccination including the batch number and date. You GP will update your UK medical record accordingly. You will need to register with the NHS app and you will be good to go. I had one in Saudi which they updated on the NHS app then one in the UK which the saudis uploaded on their app. All very easy

Norm_uk

They are becoming mandatory in some parts of the world. Austria is has stated they will fine people who refuse a vaccine, and if they don't pay the fine they will be jailed.

Dutch police recently fired live rounds into a crowd of protestors over similar rulings coming into play.

To my knowledge, we don't jail people who don't get the usual round of childhood jabs because they work and have a long track record...and they work so well that we generally only need about 75% of the population to have them to achieve herd immunity.

With these new jabs, we have countries like Israel, Ireland and areas like Gibraltar that have well over 90% double jab rates going back to lockdown restrictions and calls are going out for a third jab or even regular jabs like a flu jab.

I'm still waiting to find out why I need to be in fear of the unvaccinated, label them all as looneys and support calls to fine, sack or jail them. If my jabs worked why do I care if others don't get it as is their human right to refuse any medical procedure they will and accept any consequences as a result?

N.

UKMS

without getting into an ‘Anti Vax’ debate ….. it’s not just about the impact on you and them (the unvaccinated) …. Isnt it also partly about the strain on any given healthcare system and the risks posed to those who are vulnerable through no fault of their own ? Too many people in this world only think of me me me.

shiraz1

Herd immunity estimate is 93-95% for MMR

if 25% remain unvaccinated against Covid (assuming an age spread) then your health system will collapse, which should bother everyone.

DXBtoDOH

Never came close to collapsing in any developed nations, outside maybe a few weeks in Italy in the early days.

Having COVID antibodies seems to be the most effective set of antibodies, so I dare say it's just a matter of time till the unvaccinated get herd immunity and things calm down. I'm vaccinated but I don't buy into this hysterical fear over the unvaccinated nor the same fear about collapsing health care systems in developed nations.

New drugs are going to be released in a few months that should end this silly argument. But the political war against the unvaccinated is something that won't be forgotten.

UKMS

suppose it depends what you consider to be a collapsing healthcare system …… spend some time talking to a few frontline healthcare professionals who were working long hours 7 days a week to the point of exhaustion keeping people alive during the hospitalisation peaks in the UK ….. you might change your view about how little it would take for a system to collapse.

DXBtoDOH

Never did, did it? Didn't the Nightingale hospitals go largely unused? I don't make light of the matter but people should tread carefully before doing something so radical against many people's free will. I'm cold enough to say if someone refuses vaccination and gets sick enough then they deserve the troubles heaped on their own head, but that would be a result of their own decisions. This type of aggressive behaviours towards a minority, treating them as criminals, rarely works out well in the long run.

UKMS

you are right it never did … but it’s hard for us to understand what it would take for some aspect of a HC system to break …. Staffing being one of the pillars.

Don’t get me wrong I’m against anyone being forced to vaccinate but I’m not against everyday life being made difficult if someone simply chooses not to be.

Norm_uk

Given most covid cases reports have low to no-symptoms and how healthcare services have been prepared for this for a year and a half it would be interesting to see just how much strain healthcare systems are under in reality. They certainly seem to be fine with the people who have died from other preventable ailments because they were denied healthcare access due to lockdowns and massive fearmongering in the media that has kept some people hidden away even after they were allowed out again.

Given the low morbidity rates for covid and low hospitalisation rates for younger people and people without co-morbidities I am not sure gaslighting, denigrating, fining, sacking and now jailing people who are low risk who decide they don't want to take the jab (and those who have natural immunity...which lasts longer and works better seem to being forced to take it as well) is the way forward.

The worst forms of tyranny always start with "It's for your own good".

Norm_uk

Much depends on who is in that 25% - the mortality rates and hospitalisation rates are very low for the under 35s, and still quite low for people up to 60 who have no co-morbidities.

How many of that 25% will even need to see a doctor is the magic question.

We know vaccinated people can spread it, need treatment and die from it as well. We are witnessing that right now in Israel, Gibraltar and Ireland - who all have a higher rate of double vaccination that the herd immunity estimates you gave.

We also know that lockdown restrictions have questionable outcomes - Florida vs California come to mind as immediate examples.

weasel decentral

Ireland - approx 8% of the population over 12 are unvaccinated. The hospitals are reporting 50 to 60% of patients presenting with Covid are unvaccinated, so the vaccinated are hugely under represented.

Norm_uk

I have found it very odd that from day one treatment options were not pushed into the public eye as much as new vaccines. It's also quite strange how few health authorities devoted little resources to good nutrition, exercise and making better lifestyle choices - given most Covid deaths seem to have come from people with two or more co-morbidities you'd think this would be a good chance to drive home to everyone that making a few better choices in lifestyle here and there can prevent many deaths and reduce symptoms significantly. The apparent care for healthcare systems doesn't seem to include the many poor lifestyle choices people make, despite their habits costs healthcare systems far more than people who refused the jab. The cost of jailing and denying rights to millions of people over these jabs is going to be felt for years, not just in financial terms but also in social terms as trust erodes and resentment builds.

I can go to work and travel without proving I don't have ebola, rubella, measles, strep throat, cold and flu (which are fatal in vulnerable group and really do burden healthcare systems in the winter especially), chicken pox, shingles and many other diseases, some of which have much higher mortality rates than covid. The demonisation of people who refuse vaccines and the rush supposedly free nations are in to create a vaccine apartheid is certainly something many people seem comfortable with - just as many were comfortable with the persecution of certain groups in the 20th century who were also blamed for the world's problems by politicians who caused the problems in the first place.

I cannot think of a single instance in history where people who throw what amounts to blood libels against another group, and who seek to separate them from society, deny their rights and persecute them end up on the right side of history,

Norm_uk

So 40% to 50% of people needing to go to hospital are vaccinated then.

I wouldn't call those numbers a huge under representation. I'd call it "about half" - which suggests these vaccines are about as effective as seasonal flu vaccines - rather than as effective as the polio vaccine and other jabs we often get as children.

shiraz1

The 8% of unvaccinated people are providing half the hospitalisations, the 92% are providing half.

That does not equate to 50% efficacy, obviously.
It means over 90% protection again hospitalisation.

shiraz1

The 8% get to hold the country to ransom, while simultaneously posing as the victims.