Millhouse

copied from faceache though - let's not give him any credit for it.

Miss Ann Thrope

Oh come on, Point 3? And you know this is the entrance to a rabbit hole down which to lure people. Bad taste here and now.

Millhouse

Yeh. I thought about point three as I guessed that was the one you had the issue with. It's how he feels and objectively a lot of people are called racists for making such comments.

His comments may be in bad taste but they are his (well copied from someone else as he has no original thought) cynical observation of the pattern that seems to have emerged.

Liberal freedoms are great and are exactly what is being tested and undermined. Let's try and perseve them. That's how we win.

IKnowNothing

So, the parents have been arrested in Libya as they're all part of the cell.

Why don't take away their citizenship? They came here as refugees, running away from a regime they didn't like.

Then killed 8 year olds.

Why don't muslims seek refuge in other muslim countries?
Why do they want to go to Christian countries?
Why do muslim countries (UAE included) refuse to accept them?

And they are all my own words.

carcajou

I did not see the politics in Millhouse's post, let alone anything "deeply political." His post highlighted how our response to these attacks has been ineffective.

scrubbedexpat141

We should as Lebanon. I reckon they'd be annoyed at the 5,000 Syrians the UK has taken compared to the million+ they have.

Miss Ann Thrope

OK, since this has effectively now fully hijacked this thread and this needs a response then it seems this is the place.

Specific comments included under the relevant points below but the basis for my objection to this seemingly anodyne recital is that it is in fact insidiously vicious making unsupported and invalid assertions with potentially chilling implications. The core issue is that the underlying contention is that we are content to sit back and let this happen without doing anything meaningful to resist or stop this kind of attack.

This underlying contention is patently untrue. A huge amount of law enforcement and intelligence resources are dedicated (mostly successfully) to detecting and preventing these kinds of attacks and then following up with punitive action once culprits are identified. Think drone strikes and specific commando raids against identified significant figures in the responsible organisations and the massive western logistical support for the ground war against Daesh. That is to say nothing about the numerous counter terrorism laws and initiatives that have been implemented, often resulting in restrictions to our freedoms.

The implication of this contention is that we are somehow paralysed by political correctness and afraid to do anything. Again, this is utter bullsh*t. The further implication is that because we are not doing anything or enough that we should do more. What is the more? Arrest all Muslims? Conduct a ground war in Syria? Please do tell.....

Miss Ann Thrope

I don't disagree with most of your points here but a couple of qualifications.

Let's have a proper trial before finding the family guilty.

And by far the majority of middle east refugees (85%+) are in Muslim countries: Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan are bearing the massive brunt of the conflict in Syria and Iraq. The Gulf countries are pretty despicable in this respect but be honest, do you want a surge of refugees landing in the UAE?

IKnowNothing

The uncomfortable truth is that the liberal lefties are looking for reasons and excuses and don't face the fact that in the last 20 years pretty much all terrorist attacks in the west have been done in the name of islam (Incidentally has the mullah from the mosque where the bomber and his family worshipped said anything about the attacks? No. Perhaps that is part of the problem, the muslim community accept it), yes I know that some of the IRA for example were devout RCs too. The bomber's father and brother have both been arrested in Libya, the country they fled to gain safe sanctuary in Britain, now Libya is a very different place now, some would say even worse than before with numerous ISIS cells based there, so why do the family keep returning?

An example, Andy Burnham (new mayor of Manc) yesterday said he disapproved of the term ‘Islamic terrorism’. Abedi was ‘a terrorist, an extremist, not a Muslim’. This is the problem, why don't the liberal lefties call a spade a spade, of course he's a muslim, an islamic terrorist, are they scared that the term may "offend" someone?

Getting back to the "religion" (I'm an atheist btw), after 7/7 that killed 52 people a YouGov poll found that 6% of the muslim community supported the attacks. That's 60,000+ people in the UK that hate the UK and want it to be a caliphate, what should be done with them?

And let's not get started on the fact that some 97% of all prosecuted child groomers in the UK are muslims too.

mission

I'm sorry but i find this deeply offensive!! I didn't even bother reading beyond what i have copied above.
Firstly DO NOT lump ALL muslims with what this mental mofo did....what he did has absolutely NOTHING to do with me (ie me being a muslim) or all those muslims that i know around the world - it's mindsets like this that are the biggest issue.
Secondly just because he was a muslim, don't assume that's what Islam is all about....i don't care what anyone says, but as far as i am concerned MY Islam teaches me tolerances, kindness, humility etc...not f*king going around bombing humans left, right & centre.
Thirdly as atrocious as what this guy did, it is no different to the US bombing muslim countries that it wants to control, with hundreds of thousands of innocent lives being lost.

mission

LMAO - you are truly on drugs

Desert Shaikh

Says the Muslim hating Atheist living in a Muslim country.

Arnold S

The most confused and bitter of all.

carcajou

Or Jordan. Which is part of the problem. Legitimate and genuine refugees are getting left behind in UN camps etc, while fake ones like this Libyan family get asylum in Europe and then go back to Libya, or like the Iranian refugees in Australia whose refugee visas are now up for cancellation due to repeated holiday trips back to Iran.

The debate is caught up between the extremists - those on the far right who equate Islam = Bad or the social media brigade who define "refugee" as anyone from anywhere, coming to Europe for any reason (ie, the Merkel definition, in actions if not in words). All of this compounded by a very, very naive media who don't have the sophistication to understand the issue and thus fan the flames. A year or so ago there was a writer in the Washington Post who compared the Danish government to the Nazis because he didn't like something they did with their refugee policy. If that's not losing it, I don't know what is.

European refugee policy is a disaster and needs a complete re-do - both to make sure legitimate refugees are in fact the ones who have access, and to keep out fake ones and those with nefarious motives. But this isn't going to happen because the issue is a hostage to the two extremist viewpoints right now.

mission

Salman Abedi: How Manchester attacker turned from cannabis-smoking dropout to Isis suicide bomber | The Independent