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Old Sep 14th 2017, 12:46 pm   #46
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Default Re: Life in Morocco compared to life in Turkey

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Originally Posted by Sabi Star View Post
That whole area is really'' up and coming'' now.
As a former and soon-to-be-again resident and property owner, I wish that were true...
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Old Sep 14th 2017, 1:06 pm   #47
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Default Re: Life in Morocco compared to life in Turkey

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As a former and soon-to-be-again resident and property owner, I wish that were true...
Well see articles such as - http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...fashionability
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Old Sep 14th 2017, 1:08 pm   #48
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Default Re: Life in Morocco compared to life in Turkey

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What's wrong with Lewisham? got a great market, friendly people, not a hipster in sight.

One of my old stomping grounds. I was on holiday a few years ago with my family and we stayed just up the road in Deptford.
Had a great time.
Stayed in the new Deptford development (low-rise apartments), which was fine. Lewisham was more like the third world than most of the third world.
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Old Sep 14th 2017, 1:18 pm   #49
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Default Re: Life in Morocco compared to life in Turkey

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Stayed in the new Deptford development (low-rise apartments), which was fine. Lewisham was more like the third world than most of the third world.
That's a bit harsh. Suits me: nice parks, 15 mins to London Bridge, Aldi! And Nando's...

No danger at my end of the borough that we'll ever be at "the apex of fashionability". Thank Christ.
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Old Sep 14th 2017, 4:20 pm   #50
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Default Re: Life in Morocco compared to life in Turkey

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Originally Posted by Miss Ann Thrope View Post
As a former and soon-to-be-again resident and property owner, I wish that were true...
There has been loads of development along Creek Road going west from Greenwich, and there area around Thornham St is unrecognizable. But south of Deptford High St is pretty much the same, and likely to stay that way. The Deptford Arms is now a Paddy Power.
Friendly enough people though. I have a soft spot for Deptford.
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Old Sep 14th 2017, 4:21 pm   #51
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Default Re: Life in Morocco compared to life in Turkey

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Stayed in the new Deptford development (low-rise apartments), which was fine. Lewisham was more like the third world than most of the third world.
If that's the ones right by the DLR, I also stayed there.
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Old Sep 14th 2017, 4:25 pm   #52
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Default Re: Life in Morocco compared to life in Turkey

The South London Press should be essential reading for any new arrivals wanting to know what really goes on.

I lived on the Friary estate OKR. I know. LOL.
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Old Sep 15th 2017, 6:56 am   #53
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Default Re: Life in Morocco compared to life in Turkey

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That's a bit harsh. Suits me: nice parks, 15 mins to London Bridge, Aldi! And Nando's...

No danger at my end of the borough that we'll ever be at "the apex of fashionability". Thank Christ.
Or got to Bromley. Add 2 mins to the train journey and still have a nandos and a primark.

I'm from various parts of Bromley.
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Old Sep 15th 2017, 7:23 am   #54
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Default Re: Life in Morocco compared to life in Turkey

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Or got to Bromley. Add 2 mins to the train journey and still have a nandos and a primark.

I'm from various parts of Bromley.
The Primark sold it to me.
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Old Sep 15th 2017, 2:57 pm   #55
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Default Re: Life in Morocco compared to life in Turkey

I am not Muslim, but I am an Islamophile and I call myself a "friend of Islam." I have lived/worked extensively in the MENA area as well as the Horn of Africa and Central Asia.

My first response to your post was to think Tunisia. Then Jordan. Go for it, with the caveat of -

I agree with MAT and, I believe it was DavidNHill, that you seem to have some very naive and unrealistic expectations about the region.

For instance, unless I missed it, I've seen nothing in your posts about how you are going to obtain a visa to be able to live and work in any of these countries. This will narrow your options substantially. Work visas in the GCC are relatively easy to get, if you have certain specialist skills; but citizenship impossible. Some other posters have outlined possibilities in Malaysia. But visa options beyond tourism and study are quite complicated in other countries, and can't be done without specialist skills the local population doesn't have, or money to invest. This is not something you should just gloss over or assume is a formality - in fact, the opposite . . . without a viable visa strategy, you won't be relocating anywhere.

Second . . . the MENA countries are highly sectarian and if you do relocate, you need to make sure the neighbourhood you choose, is one where the locals practise your sect of Islam, and not a different sect. Please don't assume that European ideas of multi-culturalism or American concepts of the "melting pot" apply in MENA because they don't. If there's a mismatch, you will be discriminated against . . . and this will be sanctioned and be seen as acceptable behaviour. Choose your neighbourhood and part of town very carefully.

My advice to you would be, once you settle on a country - try to get a job teaching English for a few months, or studying conversational Arabic - and use that time to investigate as much as possible into the local context. But don't over-do it. Locals in the GCC, for instance, will love that you converted to Islam but will hate it if you start wearing their clothes (because, as I said, you aren't local, and will never be accepted as such). Investigate very, very carefully what local incomes are and what locals could afford to pay for your products if you open a shop, for instance, as I think in most places you will be in for a real shock.

Good luck.
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Old Sep 16th 2017, 8:39 am   #56
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Default Re: Life in Morocco compared to life in Turkey

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Originally Posted by carcajou View Post
I am not Muslim, but I am an Islamophile and I call myself a "friend of Islam." I have lived/worked extensively in the MENA area as well as the Horn of Africa and Central Asia.

My first response to your post was to think Tunisia. Then Jordan. Go for it, with the caveat of -

I agree with MAT and, I believe it was DavidNHill, that you seem to have some very naive and unrealistic expectations about the region.

For instance, unless I missed it, I've seen nothing in your posts about how you are going to obtain a visa to be able to live and work in any of these countries. This will narrow your options substantially. Work visas in the GCC are relatively easy to get, if you have certain specialist skills; but citizenship impossible. Some other posters have outlined possibilities in Malaysia. But visa options beyond tourism and study are quite complicated in other countries, and can't be done without specialist skills the local population doesn't have, or money to invest. This is not something you should just gloss over or assume is a formality - in fact, the opposite . . . without a viable visa strategy, you won't be relocating anywhere.

Second . . . the MENA countries are highly sectarian and if you do relocate, you need to make sure the neighbourhood you choose, is one where the locals practise your sect of Islam, and not a different sect. Please don't assume that European ideas of multi-culturalism or American concepts of the "melting pot" apply in MENA because they don't. If there's a mismatch, you will be discriminated against . . . and this will be sanctioned and be seen as acceptable behaviour. Choose your neighbourhood and part of town very carefully.

My advice to you would be, once you settle on a country - try to get a job teaching English for a few months, or studying conversational Arabic - and use that time to investigate as much as possible into the local context. But don't over-do it. Locals in the GCC, for instance, will love that you converted to Islam but will hate it if you start wearing their clothes (because, as I said, you aren't local, and will never be accepted as such). Investigate very, very carefully what local incomes are and what locals could afford to pay for your products if you open a shop, for instance, as I think in most places you will be in for a real shock.

Good luck.
Well said. A lot of good points in this post.

OP would get a residency visa in Oman to live but not work, by buying an overpriced expat house.

Most non expat schools in GCC are local, and unless you are local then you won't get in. And the quality of education is so bad most rich locals send their kids overseas or to international schools in English.

Hajj visas are only for locals nowadays.

In Oman, all the bookstores shrank or closed as no one is interested. Education is rarely valued.

Omanis wear dishdash to the hotel pubs, but will outright laugh at you if you try to wear one. Your wife in an abaya is fine as lots of local guys get foreign wives.

Omanis are mostly Ibadi, and a few from the same sect as the Bahrainis.

Have you ever lived somewhere so hot? Can you afford the aircon? Is it ok with you to use a kids paddling pool to store water so you can sluice your toilets with buckets during the inevitable shortages?

You can be friends, but you will never ever be part of their tribe.

I'd really suggest you try getting a teaching job first to try out the life and culture.
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Old Sep 16th 2017, 11:25 am   #57
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Default Re: Life in Morocco compared to life in Turkey

Interesting read. I'm off there tonight...

Casablanca’s Famous Gin Joint Has a Donald Trump Hangover
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Old Sep 18th 2017, 12:08 pm   #58
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Default Re: Life in Morocco compared to life in Turkey

Jeez I used to live in Blackheath - Deptford and Lewisham were considered part of the :"hood" (back in early 2000). I went thru there recently and has become gentrified (as much as it can!)
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