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Old Sep 25th 2012, 9:00 pm   #1
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Default Emirates NBD Dubai debt

Hi,

I am a British expat who in 2008 lived in Dubai. At that time credit cards were taken out to pay for housing etc. unfortunately I lost my job twice through no fault of my own due to the credit crisis. Lived there for about two years and in the end needed to go back home due to family and financial reasons. Hence due to these financial circumstances left Dubai as payments could not be kept up with interest rates increasing without notice and the threat of rotting in jail hanging over at a push of a button seemingly!

I continued paying the credit cards in Dubai for seven to eight months thereafter but the balance never reduced. This was due to the banks increasing the interest rates and terms without notice, having only found out when enquiring about a final settlement figure. I eventually stopped paying out of disgust to what they were doing first and foremost, and the fact also Emirati's could have all their debts cleared just like that!!!

About a week ago, three years later, I have received a letter from a UK debt recovery company. They claim to represent Emirates NBD and are demanding payment, which has now gone up from 5000 to 12000 pounds with their inflated rates upon rates! The letter is threatening, saying legal actions will be taken against me if I do not pay!

At NO point was I contacted by the bank, even though they had my email address to discuss settlements or to notify me of potential legal proceedings back in the UAE for the default. Instead this has been outsourced seemingly to a UK debt collector agency.

I have spoken to some solicitors (albeit they have no experience of similar cases from that region), they have said that the UK debt collector can commence fresh proceedings in the uk courts and get summary judgement to enforce the debt with not much cost and legal costs will be added to me also.

Even though I was under the impression through my own research and other forums that because of a) A lack of a reciprocal treaty, b) Being outside of the EU and c) Not having signed up to the Hague convntion, the debt in Dubai could not be registered in the UKband thus not be enforced!! However it seems otherwise that English common law can easily be applied here to indeed enforce the credit card debt in Dubai.

Added to that the UK courts will recognise and accept the competency of Dubai courts, despite "no separation of powers between judiciary" and ruler, despite corruption, despite rule of law being applied differently between locals and expats on debts, despite human rights violations and being a dictatorship the Dubai court is still competent! Lost for words on that one, I find it so hard to respect or accept such practices in a country like that being applied back to the UK at their choosing and behest when it created such a mess for expats that did not live the dream or take the piss! Even though Dubai World or DP owned by the ruler can seemingly default on billions to UK creditors and have payment terms of over a decade at their choosing once more!

Please anyone advise properley on what the facts are here and the realities of this type of debt situation in the UK. Please no snide comments, just constructive and factual views/ experiences only!!!

Thanks..
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Old Sep 26th 2012, 3:11 am   #2
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Default Re: Emirates NBD Dubai debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mishelle View Post
Hi,

I am a British expat who in 2008 lived in Dubai. At that time credit cards were taken out to pay for housing etc. unfortunately I lost my job twice through no fault of my own due to the credit crisis. Lived there for about two years and in the end needed to go back home due to family and financial reasons. Hence due to these financial circumstances left Dubai as payments could not be kept up with interest rates increasing without notice and the threat of rotting in jail hanging over at a push of a button seemingly!

I continued paying the credit cards in Dubai for seven to eight months thereafter but the balance never reduced. This was due to the banks increasing the interest rates and terms without notice, having only found out when enquiring about a final settlement figure. I eventually stopped paying out of disgust to what they were doing first and foremost, and the fact also Emirati's could have all their debts cleared just like that!!!

About a week ago, three years later, I have received a letter from a UK debt recovery company. They claim to represent Emirates NBD and are demanding payment, which has now gone up from 5000 to 12000 pounds with their inflated rates upon rates! The letter is threatening, saying legal actions will be taken against me if I do not pay!

At NO point was I contacted by the bank, even though they had my email address to discuss settlements or to notify me of potential legal proceedings back in the UAE for the default. Instead this has been outsourced seemingly to a UK debt collector agency.

I have spoken to some solicitors (albeit they have no experience of similar cases from that region), they have said that the UK debt collector can commence fresh proceedings in the uk courts and get summary judgement to enforce the debt with not much cost and legal costs will be added to me also.

Even though I was under the impression through my own research and other forums that because of a) A lack of a reciprocal treaty, b) Being outside of the EU and c) Not having signed up to the Hague convntion, the debt in Dubai could not be registered in the UKband thus not be enforced!! However it seems otherwise that English common law can easily be applied here to indeed enforce the credit card debt in Dubai.

Added to that the UK courts will recognise and accept the competency of Dubai courts, despite "no separation of powers between judiciary" and ruler, despite corruption, despite rule of law being applied differently between locals and expats on debts, despite human rights violations and being a dictatorship the Dubai court is still competent! Lost for words on that one, I find it so hard to respect or accept such practices in a country like that being applied back to the UK at their choosing and behest when it created such a mess for expats that did not live the dream or take the piss! Even though Dubai World or DP owned by the ruler can seemingly default on billions to UK creditors and have payment terms of over a decade at their choosing once more!

Please anyone advise properley on what the facts are here and the realities of this type of debt situation in the UK. Please no snide comments, just constructive and factual views/ experiences only!!!

Thanks..
You are going to get plenty of comments, snide or otherwise..you knowingly got yourself into debt.. credit card interest rates are high, everybody knows that.... you didn't live within your budget, you stopped paying your debt, you slag off the country and the ruler and you expect help from here...deal with it sweetie!
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Old Sep 26th 2012, 3:30 am   #3
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Default Re: Emirates NBD Dubai debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mishelle View Post
Hi,

I am a British expat who in 2008 lived in Dubai. At that time credit cards were taken out to pay for housing etc. unfortunately I lost my job twice through no fault of my own due to the credit crisis. Lived there for about two years and in the end needed to go back home due to family and financial reasons. Hence due to these financial circumstances left Dubai as payments could not be kept up with interest rates increasing without notice and the threat of rotting in jail hanging over at a push of a button seemingly!

I continued paying the credit cards in Dubai for seven to eight months thereafter but the balance never reduced. This was due to the banks increasing the interest rates and terms without notice, having only found out when enquiring about a final settlement figure. I eventually stopped paying out of disgust to what they were doing first and foremost, and the fact also Emirati's could have all their debts cleared just like that!!!

About a week ago, three years later, I have received a letter from a UK debt recovery company. They claim to represent Emirates NBD and are demanding payment, which has now gone up from 5000 to 12000 pounds with their inflated rates upon rates! The letter is threatening, saying legal actions will be taken against me if I do not pay!

At NO point was I contacted by the bank, even though they had my email address to discuss settlements or to notify me of potential legal proceedings back in the UAE for the default. Instead this has been outsourced seemingly to a UK debt collector agency.

I have spoken to some solicitors (albeit they have no experience of similar cases from that region), they have said that the UK debt collector can commence fresh proceedings in the uk courts and get summary judgement to enforce the debt with not much cost and legal costs will be added to me also.

Even though I was under the impression through my own research and other forums that because of a) A lack of a reciprocal treaty, b) Being outside of the EU and c) Not having signed up to the Hague convntion, the debt in Dubai could not be registered in the UKband thus not be enforced!! However it seems otherwise that English common law can easily be applied here to indeed enforce the credit card debt in Dubai.

Added to that the UK courts will recognise and accept the competency of Dubai courts, despite "no separation of powers between judiciary" and ruler, despite corruption, despite rule of law being applied differently between locals and expats on debts, despite human rights violations and being a dictatorship the Dubai court is still competent! Lost for words on that one, I find it so hard to respect or accept such practices in a country like that being applied back to the UK at their choosing and behest when it created such a mess for expats that did not live the dream or take the piss! Even though Dubai World or DP owned by the ruler can seemingly default on billions to UK creditors and have payment terms of over a decade at their choosing once more!

Please anyone advise properley on what the facts are here and the realities of this type of debt situation in the UK. Please no snide comments, just constructive and factual views/ experiences only!!!

Thanks..

Ask the debt recovery company under which law/statue or act are they using to justify recovering your debt.

IMHO it's scare tactics
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Old Sep 26th 2012, 3:31 am   #4
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Default Re: Emirates NBD Dubai debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mishelle View Post
Hi,

I am a British expat who in 2008 lived in Dubai. At that time credit cards were taken out to pay for housing etc. unfortunately I lost my job twice through no fault of my own due to the credit crisis. Lived there for about two years and in the end needed to go back home due to family and financial reasons. Hence due to these financial circumstances left Dubai as payments could not be kept up with interest rates increasing without notice and the threat of rotting in jail hanging over at a push of a button seemingly!

I continued paying the credit cards in Dubai for seven to eight months thereafter but the balance never reduced. This was due to the banks increasing the interest rates and terms without notice, having only found out when enquiring about a final settlement figure. I eventually stopped paying out of disgust to what they were doing first and foremost, and the fact also Emirati's could have all their debts cleared just like that!!!

About a week ago, three years later, I have received a letter from a UK debt recovery company. They claim to represent Emirates NBD and are demanding payment, which has now gone up from 5000 to 12000 pounds with their inflated rates upon rates! The letter is threatening, saying legal actions will be taken against me if I do not pay!

At NO point was I contacted by the bank, even though they had my email address to discuss settlements or to notify me of potential legal proceedings back in the UAE for the default. Instead this has been outsourced seemingly to a UK debt collector agency.

I have spoken to some solicitors (albeit they have no experience of similar cases from that region), they have said that the UK debt collector can commence fresh proceedings in the uk courts and get summary judgement to enforce the debt with not much cost and legal costs will be added to me also.

Even though I was under the impression through my own research and other forums that because of a) A lack of a reciprocal treaty, b) Being outside of the EU and c) Not having signed up to the Hague convntion, the debt in Dubai could not be registered in the UKband thus not be enforced!! However it seems otherwise that English common law can easily be applied here to indeed enforce the credit card debt in Dubai.

Added to that the UK courts will recognise and accept the competency of Dubai courts, despite "no separation of powers between judiciary" and ruler, despite corruption, despite rule of law being applied differently between locals and expats on debts, despite human rights violations and being a dictatorship the Dubai court is still competent! Lost for words on that one, I find it so hard to respect or accept such practices in a country like that being applied back to the UK at their choosing and behest when it created such a mess for expats that did not live the dream or take the piss! Even though Dubai World or DP owned by the ruler can seemingly default on billions to UK creditors and have payment terms of over a decade at their choosing once more!

Please anyone advise properley on what the facts are here and the realities of this type of debt situation in the UK. Please no snide comments, just constructive and factual views/ experiences only!!!

Thanks..
There are a number of things you should do.

1 - Ignore Patsy (she's right, but fight this anyway).
2 - Contact the UK debt company and ask them to show you documentary evidence of the jurisdiction under which they operate.
3 - Ask to see any proof they have that you do actually owe this money (even if you do, they may not be able to prove that).
4 - Don't be intimidated.
5 - More thoughts later.
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Old Sep 26th 2012, 3:41 am   #5
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Default Re: Emirates NBD Dubai debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dean View Post
There are a number of things you should do.

1 - Ignore Patsy (she's right, but fight this anyway).
2 - Contact the UK debt company and ask them to show you documentary evidence of the jurisdiction under which they operate.
3 - Ask to see any proof they have that you do actually owe this money (even if you do, they may not be able to prove that).
4 - Don't be intimidated.
5 - More thoughts later.
I had people contact me regarding Dubai debt...

Any contract you signed was between yourself and Emirates bank, as such.. you have only breach contract (t&c's) with a UAE based entity.

As you have not entered into any contract or binding agreement with the UK Debt recovery company, or any other UK based company it cannot be enforced.

As there is no contract, no joinder... you have no problem (under common law)


If you enter into a contract with the UK company to pay, and then default, you can be chased for the money.
Sign nothing, and tel them to go **** themselves.


These companies operate by taking on many debts at a reduced rate... marking up the rate, then hoping a few people will be threatened into paying.

If they buy 10 peoples debt records, they only need 3 or 4 to pay up to make a profit.

I told them to come around to my house and have a nice cup of tea with me and my barrister friend.....they declined and wrote off the debt.




Which was good...........as i dont have a barrister friend
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Last edited by Jammy_Dodgers; Sep 26th 2012 at 3:49 am.
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Old Sep 26th 2012, 3:46 am   #6
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Default Re: Emirates NBD Dubai debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patsy Stoned View Post
You are going to get plenty of comments, snide or otherwise..you knowingly got yourself into debt.. credit card interest rates are high, everybody knows that.... you didn't live within your budget, you stopped paying your debt, you slag off the country and the ruler and you expect help from here...deal with it sweetie!
Patsy, we cant judge everyone as being financially reckless.

I was very cautious whilst there, however my company refusing to pick up my son's hospital bills for open heart surgery left me in the poo.


My choice.....get in Debt or watch my son die.......tis a no-brainer..

He was covered under the company plan, but because I got married after he was conceived.. the company refuse to pay for "moral" reasons....
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Old Sep 26th 2012, 4:47 am   #7
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Default Re: Emirates NBD Dubai debt

Mishelle

Have you contacted Emirates NDB to find out their take on the situation?

I have to say that it's not smart of pay for housing on a credit card, but it is what it is and you need to repay your debt, at least in part, to stop all the hassles. Interesting about the rates and charges increasing as that really doesn't happen too much unless payments are late in which case extra charges apply.

I may be able to find out Emirates NDB's position on the topic. You can reach me via the link in my signature below and you'll see I assist on such issues on a regular basis.
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Old Sep 26th 2012, 5:46 am   #8
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Default Re: Emirates NBD Dubai debt

^^^^

What Jammy and Dean said, they have no legal basis to be able to claim any debt in UK. You will already have a case, and probably a custodial sentance for bouncing a cheque in UAE anyway, you can always mention that to the debt agency, something like, I have a custodial sentence (probably 1-2 months for a 30k debt) in Dubai, make up a case number, Year/Number eg 2011/12345 and tell them that to piss off.

To reiterate, don't agree to anything, and definitely don't sign anything.
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Old Sep 26th 2012, 9:08 am   #9
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Default Re: Emirates NBD Dubai debt

Did you buy anything nice with the money Mishelle?
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Old Sep 26th 2012, 9:16 am   #10
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Default Re: Emirates NBD Dubai debt

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Did you buy anything nice with the money Mishelle?
She spent some of it on a deed poll to change her name to the correct spelling...........
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Old Sep 26th 2012, 9:21 am   #11
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Default Re: Emirates NBD Dubai debt

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She spent some of it on a deed poll to change her name to the correct spelling...........
Thats quite 'catty', but I'm liking your signature so I won't pull you up on it, a great cause.
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Old Sep 26th 2012, 10:20 am   #12
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Default Re: Emirates NBD Dubai debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammy_Dodgers View Post
Patsy, we cant judge everyone as being financially reckless.

I was very cautious whilst there, however my company refusing to pick up my son's hospital bills for open heart surgery left me in the poo.


My choice.....get in Debt or watch my son die.......tis a no-brainer..

He was covered under the company plan, but because I got married after he was conceived.. the company refuse to pay for "moral" reasons....
I know JD, but I woke up in a bad mood this morning
How you doing sweetie?
xx
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Old Sep 26th 2012, 4:55 pm   #13
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Default Re: Emirates NBD Dubai debt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patsy Stoned View Post
I know JD, but I woke up in a bad mood this morning
How you doing sweetie?
xx
All Good Hun!
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Old Sep 26th 2012, 5:02 pm   #14
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Default Re: Emirates NBD Dubai debt

Thanks
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Old Sep 26th 2012, 5:05 pm   #15
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Default Re: Emirates NBD Dubai debt

Just wanted to add that the money was NOT used for fun. I went there with a lot of promises by a company and after I had paid for the flat for one year, they just made me leave. I had a very hard time there and contrary to what everyone assumes it's not all fun and games there.
Thanks for the replies.
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