al dente

I completely agree that the kids spaces don't need to be near the entrance at all but i do like the extra door room. Also if you've got a child over 4 that doesn't need help with a seat belt etc then it is taking the piss to use it.

Millhouse

The trick is to try and keep it real. Mini's life here probably isn't much different to what it would be at home. Apart from the frequent trips down to YAS. He probably gets less toys here than he would in the UK.

Poor mini gets a raw deal from our maid who gives him almost as much stick as we do.

Ethos83

Most of you are missing the essential truth.

If you have children in Dubai, you have no choice but to use the international schools, which cost quite a bit of money.

The UAE government does not provide free schooling for western expatriate children. The companies know this and they know that in order to recruit western expatriate families to Dubai they have to provide either school fees or a package that will cover the expenses of educating children in Dubai. Getting school fees or additional salary to cover the expense of school fees is not a privilege or even a salary increase. The money goes straight to the schools to provide something that would be free 'back home'. The family doesn't get a higher standard of living or greater disposable income, so why whinge about a family with three children receiving three sets of school fees versus a family with two children receiving two set of school fees?

This is simply how the system works in Dubai. I don't see any injustice in someone getting 'paid' more because he has an additional child, when that package differential is only an additional set of school fees.

scrubbedexpat141

I'm just saying what I see from different businesses.

What does education matter if you're not here permanently?

co durham boy

A private business that has the choice between recruiting a guy with one child and the guy with 4 for the same position or even a guy on single status . There's a massive issue as it's cost to company and that differential is now becoming the driver for employing people on single status or with only 1 child.

Certain industries can accommodate that easy but it's getting harder for private companies to continue to swallow that cost . Obviously that all depends on the role and how specific it is and what profession .

I think this is a major consideration now for firms as they look to kill cost and overheads . If you've got 4 kids and your wife here there's also big cost that's bourne by the company in other parts of the deal as well , Flights , Medical , Visa as well as the schooling plus the uplift in the size of accommodation needed . Firms will find it harder and harder to put these deals into place in the long run , it's unsustainable .

Ethos83

I don't disagree with any of your points.

But if a company's perfectly willing to offer school fees, why are we whinging about it? It's up to the company to decide how much they want to spend on a prospective employee, and companies know if they want someone to come out to Dubai from the UK and that person has children, they have to offer school fees or its equivalent in a higher salary.

There's nothing 'unfair' about offering school fees to an employee with children versus a childless employee not getting school fees, as was what Scamp and Millie were implying.

co durham boy

Yes agreed mate but i think you'll see a more specific kind of recruitment which profiles certain types of Expats , some roles won't matter as they'll be senior enough to warrant it or roles where the job is that specific that the candidate is a must or unless it's project driven the finance is a sunk cost for that role incorporated into the project as well .

I do think the lock , stock married status with kids roles will generally start to decline though , it's a no brainer , especially in Dubai where work is scarce and firms really need to get value per employee if they recruit at all .

scrubbedexpat141

Not saying it's unfair, just saying it's unrealistic.

As CDB has said, it's a cost driven place at the moment. If someone get's 3 kids, 1 return flight for 5 people and a bigger house then they cost more than a family of 3 in total, a Single guy out here. That's the bottom line.

That's why I see less 'family' status roles, more requirements for people already here and more of the all-in packages where you have to sort your own affairs out and work out if it's enough for your kid / house / car / wife combo's.

Millhouse

It sort of is unfair. Think about it. You are out here with 2 kids. You have another. Suddenly you cost more than the guy next to you. Does the other guy get a pay rise? No, of course not.

Is the first guy "better off"? Marginally. He has another kid being enrolled into an education which is likely to be better than he would be getting at home.

Am I worse off as a result? Potentially. His additional cost is a drain on the bonus pot that we share.

Do I care? No. I've negotiated my terms and am happy with them. But, in my last role where our revenues & bonus pot was pretty much defined upfront we couldn't wait to get rid of the drain on our P&L that was the guy with loads of kids.

It isn't as clear cut as you think Ethos. Think about how you would run a business.

co durham boy

Also the thing to remember here is that sometimes packages were done on the back of a fag packet and at the time not much effort was put into the calculation.

People were usually employed when the company needed them today and there was very little foresight into there recruitment , now that's changed and we've started the cycle again and what you'll find is that there will be a host of benefits cut rapidly and people dispensed with which is what we've seen over the last 18 months .

People need to start recruiting efficiently and part of that means getting value for money , speaking from experience , at the moment in the current market there would be no way my company would look at a guy with 4 kids , the complete cost would be too much .

God , i sound like a F****** recruitment consultant....Anyone for the Barasti...!

scrubbedexpat141

Steady on.

But, you're right.

Hello.Kitty

I've been a bit slack with that recently... it's now just above "stapling my eyelids to the desk" in my list of Things To Do When I'm Bored.

Ethos83

I'm well aware of the points being made and that it can be a drain on the overhead and operating expenses, but such is the nature of the Dubai economic model. What kind of taxation do the companies pay? Some, if not necessarily all, of the expenses are probably offset by lower expenditures in other areas.

It's an odd situation as a result of a place where 90% of the population is expatriate but the social benefits (schooling, health care) are restricted to a tiny minority of nationals. Companies in Dubai realise that they have to shoulder some of the burdens that companies elsewhere don't have to.

co durham boy

"Companies in Dubai realise that they have to shoulder some of the burdens that companies elsewhere don't have to."

That's the last thing on their minds , morals and responsibilities

Hello.Kitty

yeah... try lugging a 2 year old (12kg) and a baby in his carseat (9kg) across a busy car-park and then lug them back to find that some tosser has parked too close to one side so that you then have to do some kind of yoga move (with screaming child - the only outcome of a long shopping trip) to get sunny-jim/lass in to their seat. Or you could have a go being heavily pregnant with a toddler...

I love the P&B spaces, although I have to agree about the disabled ones. They've got the count wrong in our local super-Tescos - about 25 disabled spaces (always some spare) and about 10 P&B ones with people queueing for them.