Dodgexander

Hi, new member here, I have read a lot on this forum the past few days and it looks to be a wonderful resource. Thanks to everyone who takes the time to answer many questions posted by others that have also helped me.

My girlfriend (USC) and I (UKC) aren't really ready for marriage yet, but we are both interested in having a clear plan for the future, providing of course everything remains the same we have been looking to eventually marry in the future (if the time feels right) as this looks like the only path I have for permanent residence.

The problem like many have asked on here before is actually related to spending some good time together before we can safely make this decision.

So I met my gf online in may 2015 and we have been "official" since January this year. In September we met for the first time for 10 days and it couldn't have gone any better.

So we have been looking at the best way to spend some time together so we can be sure we are making the right decision before marriage.

I have a few questions that perhaps someone can help us with?

So far we thought of the following plan:

1. Due to her own constraints I will need to visit her again before she visits here. We thought about meeting again this winter for close to the max days allowed from the VWP. Since I last visited in September will traveling so soon cause suspicion? I have no intent to work I just want to spend some time with her. This is something that scares me as on my visit I actually was selected for questioning by the CBP.

2. After my visit we will plan for her to visit me for only a week or so due to vacation limits.

3. Now this is the big question, after 1 and 2. What is the best way we can spend some more time together before making the decision? I know the fiance visa gives you 90 days but ideally we need time together before even getting to that stage. I have thought that perhaps it may be wise to apply for a tourist visa of 6 months and to live with her then? Hopefully in that time we will have a better idea. Perhaps going for the visa would be a better and more secure idea than another VWP visit so close to my other?

I have also thought about the possibility of school or temporary work. School seems expensive, tuition fees for foreign students at the local college seem to be around $4000 for 12 credits and $2000 for 6. Is studying only 6 a possibility on a m1/f1 visa as I may be able to afford this. The cost of living and inability to work though also raises financial concern. I know it's possible to loan money from here too, but since only private loans are an option this is also a financial risk.

Then I thought about the h1b visa path (I think) and gaining some kind of temporary work in hospitality such as a local hotel? I know that this is mainly reserved for skilled workers with degrees but is it also true it's available for unskilled workers in particular jobs and roles? Does anyone know where i can find a list of these occupations and vacancies if true?

4. Lastly, marriage. I have been reading a lot about this including details in the very nice guide written on this site so I understand the ins and outs of each possibility. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

My concerns are with the affidavit of support forms and poverty guidelines.

A. My fiancee needs to meet 100% income of the poverty guidelines for them to consider me for a k1 visa. The complication here is my gf has a child from a previous relationship. The child is 2 years of age and custody is joint between his father and mother. When it comes to which tax return form the child is listed on my gf told me it alternates each year, so for one year he will be a dependant on her and the next his father. How will this work with the guidelines? She earns enough for 3 persons at 100% for the I-134 but not 125% for the I-864 which I know is later required instead for the adjustment of status. I had read that even for the k1 application though they may look for 125% anyway since they assume that I will later be filing for adjustment of status, post marriage. If only 2 persons she is accounted for then she can sponsor me fine at 125% so does anyone know if her son counts or not since he's not permanently with her?

I also understand that with the I-134 you can't obtain a co-sponsor only use someone else completly as a replacement sponsor, is this correct?

I think also that this process changes with the I-864 where you can in fact have a co-sponsor. Eg have both my gf (fiancee) and her mother both sponsor me to meet the min requirements?

Also, as I understand, any money I own or earn does not help with the either application process? It's strictly US income only?

Also I had read that my fiancee claiming welfare can also impact the application. She does receive child support after a court case. Will this affect anything? Apart from that she has been in her current full time job for 5-6 months, before she was earning less. How will this work when we apply in the future?

Finally I read that when applying for the k1 visa you need to supply police records from any country you have previously lived in over 12 months, I lived in the Netherlands for a few years about 3 years ago, I'm not sure getting this will be easy since I was a free worker inside the EU, I did not have to register a security number there or anything, although I have a clean record and worked legally for my time there. Will they even know I've previously lived abroad?

Thanks for any advice you can give. We are very grateful for the time taken to read the post.

Dodge

ian-mstm

Not likely.


You can't.


Wrong! The fiancé visa gives you 90 days in which to marry, and is intended for people who have already made the decision. It is not like the reality TV show where people use it to date for an extended period of time before making the decision. If you're not yet ready to marry, the fiance visa is not for you.


Bad idea! You can't live in the US without an appropriate visa, and a B-2 tourist visa is not an appropriate visa. If the B-2 visa is denied for any reason whatsoever (including being eligible to use ESTA/VWP), then that visa denial must be declared on every subsequent US visa including ESTA... which will subsequently be denied for up to 12 months - and that would very quickly put the brakes on you visiting at all.


I'm going to cut this off here and now. I appreciate that you're trying any myriad of options to get around the obvious route, but your endless permutations on a theme will almost all fizzle out quickly and you will be left with one undeniable fact: the only way you're going to get to the US on any sort of long-term basis, is by marriage.


No, she doesn't. Anyone who meets the financial eligibility can sponsor you for the K-1.


In which case she can use a joint sponsor to meet the financial requirements.


There's no such thing as a co-sponsor for the I-134. However, anyone can be your sponsor if they meet the financial requirements.


There's no such thing as a co-sponsor for the I-864. There is a joint sponsor. The terms are not interchangeable.


No. There can be only one joint sponsor. Your fiancée and her mother can not split the financial requirements.


Do some research on the term "reciprocity" as it relates to US immigration.

Ian

Pulaski

TL,DNR Sorry, that's a lot of words that only say what we've seen many times before, and as recently as last week.

In short, it is very difficult, very expensive, or impossible to do what you're trying to do, but in a honesty, having been in exactly your situation, if you can't decide that your right for each other within a few weeks of spending time together then several additional months isn't going to change anything.

The then-future Mrs P and I spent a grand total of six and a half weeks together before we got married, and one of those weeks was the week before we got married. We decided to get married after spending only TWO weeks together and married one year later, 21 months after we "met" on line, and met face-to-face for the first time.

Noorah101

Probably not, but of course that's up to the POE Officer on duty that day.

There is no "best" way. There is only whatever way works for you and your particular situations and qualifications, if there is any way at all.

Not a good idea. If you are VWP eligible, it will almost impossible to get a B-2 visa. Simply wanting to spend more time in the USA is not a good enough reason to issue a B-2. 90 days on the VWP is more than enough time for tourism, and you cannot "live" in the USA as a visitor.

No.

Yes, studying in the USA is expensive.

The temporary seasonal work visa is an H2 visa.

It's for seasonal-type workers, such as ski instructors, crop pickers, summer camp counselor or coach, that sort of thing.

There isn't one.

Either that, or a different sponsor if your fiancée doesn't qualify.

It doesn't matter. They will look at her current income and decide from that information.

He counts under "other people you are obligated to support financially" or some such verbiage.

Correct.

Joint sponsor. Your wife will be your sponsor; her mother will be a joint sponsor.

Depends on how much you have in savings. For the K-1, if you have enough in savings (i.e. probably about 3x the amount of 100% of the poverty guideline), you might be able to self sponsor. For the adjustment of status or a spouse visa, your savings can be combined with your wife's to meet the financial requirements.

Child support is not welfare. Child support can count towards her income.

How will this work? She lists her job and income on the affidavit of support, that's all.

Never lie. If you lived abroad, you must declare it. If you need a police report from another country, go to https://travel.state.gov/content/vis...y-country.html to find out how to obtain it.

My advice would be to continue the long distance relationship, continue visiting each other, until such time that you feel ready for marriage, and then do either the K-1 fiancé visa or CR-1 spouse visa.

Rene

scrubbedexpat099

London allows you to self sponsor a K1.

Dodgexander

Thanks everyone for taking the time to answer. It's very kind. I'm sorry if my questions were repeated before. I have done my best to closely read and understand everything but it's very complicated to me.
So there's no way to spend more time together before making the decision without spreading it out and having more time apart? We could go on for a while whilst making VWP visits. I know there's no limit on returning back home and revisiting again but I doubt doing that in such short periods of time is going to be acceptable in the eyes of the CBP.

We're both trying to be as sensible and careful as we can about the situation. We want to plan ahead and not make any mistakes. We feel that it's wise to spend more time together before making such a big decision. If it came to it then perhaps we will agree to marry after my next visit but the more time the better.

Can anyone offer any further advice re poverty guidelines?

Regarding her child, how will we know if he's considered one of the "persons" or not since he shares his time between my gf and his dad? Will it just be a matter of whether he appears as a dependable on her most recent tax form or is there no doubt he will be counted?

When it comes to the I-864 application will any difference between my fiancées income and required income be able to "topped up" either by my savings, her savings or assets or is simply a matter of if you don't meet the 125% you need a joint sponsor who does? I had read that you need 5x the amount in savings, is this 5x the difference between what she earns and the guideline or 5x the total guideline?
Also when it comes to temporary work for unskilled foreign workers are there any resources to gain info on positions available?

Is college not an option unless you have substantial savings? I have circa $14,000. How about studying for only 6 ($4000 pa) credits rather than 12 ($8000 pa)? Is part time study acceptable?

Out of interest why is the B2 not suitable? The visa states it's for tourism, pleasure or visiting and I will be visiting. It later lists one of eligible reasons as:
visit with friends or relatives.

I also do not meet the requirements to be declined as I won't be seeking permanent residence, just staying with my gf.
https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/visit/visitor.html
Are you guys certain this isn't possible if I prove the means to return and prove enough savings to support myself? I could also get an suggest l affidavit from my gf?

The reason I would be applying for this over the VWP would be the extended duration. I understand this is the only option for people outside the VWP but from those inside, it's the only option for longer visits than 3 months.

Noorah101

Yes, there are ways, you mentioned them yourself...study in the USA, work in the USA. Whether you qualify for those paths or not, we don't know.

That should work for a while, anyway. Just don't make back to back trips.

www.uscis.gov, I-864P. Not sure what kind of advice you need.

Go ahead and factor him in, just to be on the safe side. So hers will be a household of 3.

Once you're married, your assets become joint. Everything you need to know about the I-864 affidavit of support can be found on www.uscis.gov, form I-864 and instructions. I suggest reading that first, then asking questions.

It's 3x for the spouse of a USC. Assets at 3x the required amount can be used to make up the difference she is lacking in income.

As I said in my previous post....No.

You must show you can afford the tuition plus living expenses. You need to first be accepted to a US educational institution (I-20).

I don't believe so, no. F-1 I believe only covers full time study.

Experience has indicated that B-2 visas are routinely denied for those folks who are eligible to use the VWP, because there is simply no reason to have such a long touristy visit to the USA. Tourism can be done well within 90 days. As I said in my previous post, simply wanting to stay longer in the USA, to stay longer with a loved one, is not an acceptable reason for wanting to stay longer than 90 days. In fact, having a USC love interest works against you because it gives you a reason to want to stay in the USA.

You are certainly welcome to apply for a B-2, but just be aware as Ian has said, that if the B-2 is denied (highly likely), then you need to re-apply for ESTA and declare the visa denial. Experience has shown that this leads to an ESTA denial for 6 to 12 months following the visa denial. If you are willing to risk that, then go ahead and apply for the B-2.

We understand. But this reason is not good enough for the interviewing officer to grant the B-2 visa. What about your ties to the UK? What about work? How can you be gone from your job for 6 months at a time? (these are questions the officer would ask, and want you to provide proof that you don't intend to remain in the USA or work there illegally).

Rene

Pulaski

The US expects visitors from countries allowed to use the VWP, will use the VWP under almost all circumstances, typically excluding retirees, who obviously don't have jobs and so are allowed to spend upto six months at a stretch in the US. There is also an implied suspicion that anyone of working age who can afford to not work for more than three months is a risk for working illegally in the US - remember that three weeks, or fewer, annual vacation allowance is very common for US employees.

Occasionally people have reported getting a B-2 after presenting a thorough plan for something that can't be completed in 90 days, such as hiking the Appalachian trail, however "shacking up with my girlfriend" isn't going to be an acceptable reason to justify a B-2.

Twinkle0927

OP, you've almost answered your own question. You are getting concerned about things like the I-864 and poverty guidelines but this form and these requirements don't come into play until after marriage and you're a long way off that yet. You are looking at how to live in the USA without first thinking about whether she is right for you. Don't carried away.

You have a good amount of savings, and presumably a reasonably good job that has enabled you to accumulate those savings. So carry on with that job and with visits on the VWP until you are certain you are ready to marry. I know it's exciting because it's a fresh and new love and in a new country too. It's hard work being in a long-distance relationship (we have been married 2 years - together 4.5 years and still not living together although my interview for IR-1 is fast approaching at long last) so I know what it's like. Don't blow all your savings on a college course that you don't want to do just to be able to spend time with her. For the same money you could buy several plane tickets and make several shorter visits. Keep working and saving - you'll need that money in the future.

I was slightly concerned when I read your statement about marriage "but that's the only way I can obtain permanent residency". Marriage should never be entered into for that reason. I think you've already decided you want to live in the USA one way or another (you actually sound quite desperate). Take it slowly with her and make sure she is the right path there - for her and her child's sakes.

ian-mstm

Here's some advice... the US is a shitty place to be in if you're poor! There is no government safety net like in the UK. If your girlfriend's finances aren't up to the challenge, I suggest you rethink your plans!


Are you serious? Your girlfriend is the child's mother. The child is under 18, and so is a dependent regardless of how he's claimed on tax returns. He's not a dependent just when he's with her... he's a dependent also when he's with his dad!


There is no doubt he will be counted.


On the contrary, you most certainly do.


You likely won't have the chance to prove anything. You must appear at the US Consulate for an interview to get your visa - and the decision to approve or deny your visa will likely be made prior to you even talking to a Consular Officer. They are not obligated to look at anything you bring, nor are they obligated to consider anything you say.


You say this as though you think it makes a difference! Wanting more time in the US is not a sufficient reason for someone to get a B-2 visa when they have access to the VWP... and, to be frank, the US has no interest in what you want.


The default position for the US is that no one needs more than 90 days in the US. If you want to be greedy, that's your choice, but don't complain about it when your visa is denied.

Ian

Dodgexander

Thanks everyone for the help, it gives us a better idea of what to expect. It seems counterproductive for them to limit the time people can spend together before marriage, surely by allowing more time together they would reduce the so called "green card marriages" which is presumably why they are strict about marriage to begin with. Yes I know there's no point debating it with them, rules are rules and they do it to stop people coming to begin with but in some ways it seems a little strange to me.

No we don't want to get married for the wrong reasons so it looks like the only option is to spend more time apart than together unfortunately.

Good luck to everyone still in the process of visa applications and thank you everyone for your help.

Noorah101

The UKC is limited to 90 days on the VWP, but don't forget the USC can spend up to 6 months in the UK without a visa, so that's one way to spend more time together.

Rene

scrubbedexpat099

And as she shares custody that could be doable.

Pulaski

Not many mothers of a two year old would want to leave them for six months.

scrubbedexpat099

It does not have to be 6 months, perhaps the father would be OK child going for a month or so.