Piff Poff

Thanks Bats

Tinpusher63

This is not a feature of cattle ranches either. The eye watering smells are feature of feedlots where cattle are sent to be fed grain as a finishing feed before being sent for slaughter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feedlot

Piff Poff

The Ranch on the outskirts of Sylvan Lake is not a feedlot, probably just bad husbandry.

Thanks everyone with suggestions on where to get deals, the problem we are running into is of course one of the days
is Thanksgiving Sunday.

I WILL get something booked tonight

bats

I suppose over the border is booked up too? Olcott Beach is said to npbe nice.

Novocastrian

I'm not sure what you mean by the hardline environmentalists? Coal power is a terrible idea in the context of CO2 pollution, yes. I've mentioned several times before on here that nuclear is undesirable in principle, but likely worth keeping for another generation of plants, simply for the pragmatic reason that it doesn't directly emit CO2.

Since we're stuck with a large amount of waste already, the disposal of which still needs to be puzzled out, I don't think whether there's x amount or 2x amount of the shit makes a huge difference.

The "environmentalists" you claim to be opposed to wind power are an entirely different breed. In the UK they're typified by anti-badger cull tin hatters and the like. And so-called professors of history. Not the same thing.

Neither category promotes mud huts.

When you're lying in your bed with an (imaginary) ISIL scimitar to your throat, you can take comfort that it's Oil (em)Powered.

dbd33

Ah, badgers. Black creatures with legs. I don't know that they run but they certainly scurry.

In the UK there's an issue of bovine TB. Some cows get TB, some of them get it from some badgers (I know the science of that is a bit wobbly but let's suppose it's true).

Two broad solutions are presented:

- determine the herds at risk, vaccinate those cows

- kill all the badgers

Note that it has to be all the badgers, if you kill some and frighten others the others run away and sett up somewhere else, possibly carrying T.B. to a previously uninfected area.

The government decided on the second course. Being aware that this will not go over well with the public (they'll see it as putting the farmer's desire not to pay for vaccinations ahead of the health of the cows and so that of the public), the government decided to hire people to shoot the badgers at night. Badgers, black things that scurry.

Obviously only a tin hatted eco-fanatic could have foreseen that this wasn't a very bright idea.

Shard

It seems the least worst option. Keep in mind that cows are not around that long, so it would be an ongoing vaccination program. And it doesn't seem wise to have animals with TB roaming the countryside, as other livestock could also be infected.

Souvy

Badgers are nocturnal. How would one shoot a badger during the day?

Shard

Question on the wind turbines, Novo, or other experts: how long (months/years) would it take for the carbon neutrality gains of a turbine to offset all the carbon produced in manufacture and transportation of the turbine. I'm referring to the whole machine (generator, fan and tower). Obviously there are different sized machines and there output depends on their situation, etc, etc, etc. I'm just looking for a typical "neutrality figure" in months to counteract the argument that the machines are not environmentally friendly when manufacture is considered.

dbd33

If you can't see them to shoot them during the day, because they're in their caves, and you can't see them to shoot them at night, because they're black and won't stay still, then perhaps shooting them is a silly idea.

dbd33

Lots of animals roaming the countryside carry diseases, even plants do, but we're not trying to eliminate rabbits, foxes, stinging nettles and poison ivy. It's not sensible for us to try and eliminate species (nor to introduce new ones, such as rabbits in Australia or zebra mussels in the Great Lakes). We're just not clever enough to know what will happen when we've killed the last example of whatever it is.

Note that, here in Canada, there are all manner of rabid and/or animal eating creatures in the countryside and yet, there are sheep, there are cows and there is milk! Farming continues without having to wipe out the coyotes.

How about farmers in the UK consider getting some fencing?

Shard

Last time I checked rabbits and nettles weren't attacking cows and lambs! I don't believe the intention is to eliminate the badger, but to reduce its number. As for nocturnality, we do have night vision goggles these days, and they are being used I believe in the cull. I wouldn't say there is any great impact on the evolutionary chain of badger. Such odd ramblings today, have you not had your morning coffee yet?

Souvy

Surely you have heard of night sights?

dbd33

Reduce the number by only shooting the infected ones? Only shooting the ones in contact with the infected ones? Or just shooting some random ones?


Not to great effect. The cull was originally reported to be effective only if a specified proportion of badgers was killed in a specified time. Then, when the cull started and the buggers kept moving, the proportion was changed. Then, when they wouldn't keep still, the time limit was extended.

I don't think there's any case that the cull has been successful in killing the quota of badgers. Neither is there a case that it's done anything to reduce bovine TB. The only argument is whether or not it was glaringly stupid to think that the shooting campaign could possibly work.

caretaker

Once you make it big in children's books it's damned near impossible to get rid of you.
The entrances to their dens can be a hazard, I stepped in one through the snow up to my hip.