AJ_2021

Hi all,

We previously lived in Canada for a short time and now live in rural Wales UK.

We have dabbled a few times on whether to return but recently recinded our PR due to it expiring and not having enough days in country, still wanting to visit for vacations for now.

We have recently spent some time in Toronto, and I think this has been, by a long way, the worst state of deprivation and homelessness I have ever seen. Some areas were like hell on earth.

I saw people carrying around drug paraphernalia, violence upon others and criminal damage being caused to city property. I also saw security trying to revive some poor soul n a busy street, clearly homeless, presumed overdosed. As I crossed the road in downtown, a topless bedraggled guy cycled at speed straight at me, turning sharply away at last minute. It felt unsafe and saw so much for only being in the city for two days. A big eye opener.

​​​​What I also found a bit odd comparing back to my memories of Canada was that this time there was no real sign of police or in fact any time of support services, only on scarce moments when they drive through, and I can only assume they ignore the issues, and just saw lots and lots of security personnel looking after private buildings.

I am left shocked and quite frankly appalled. I have never ever seen anything like this in the UK. I have never seen so many people suffering so bad.

Have I been softened by my UK life or is it getting worse? I know Canada has had a problem for many years, but I was gobsmacked.

​​I am left wondering where did it all go wrong for Canada. I have visited many US cities and Toronto felt far worse than any of my other travels.

If you live in a major city, how do you cope with this?
What is Canada doing to tackle this matter and help these people who are clearly suffering so very bad?

It seems like it's at crisis point to be honest.

​​​​​

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dbd33

I guess your experience of US cities didn't include Philadelphia nor San Francisco. They have big city problems too.

That said, I'm in active correspondence with a Canadian, from Guelph, who is currently in London. Shoreditch specifically. The lack of apparent homelessness and drug use in Shoreditch, compared to Guelph, is, apparently, something that catches the Canadian eye. Shoreditch is, of course, a sink estate like Rosedale is a sink estate,

Canada has less of a support network than the UK though more of one than the US. Accordingly, one would expect, the divide between the housed and unhoused to be more stark in Canada than the UK, though less so than the US. Most immigrants from the UK are not going to be unhoused in either Canada or the US and either option will provide the immigrant with more consumer durables than staying in the UK. That's the deal, give up culture and family, gain a bathroom. In taking the deal one must sometimes hold one's nose and ignore the local customs; visible homelessness, open use of meth and crack, is part of that. It's just drugs though; it's not like there's much actual slavery in the cities (well, just sweatshops and sex workers and grow op workers and the like).

CanadaJimmy

It really boils down to housing ultimately. Canada hasn't invested in public/social housing for 30 years, and now it's reached crisis point. Social housing projects that are funded are often blocked by NIMBYs who don't want social or subsidized housing in their neighbourhood so get endlessly delayed, even though most of the people who live in them are decent and hardworking. Homeless shelters don't provide much stability and end up being magnets for petty crime, which makes people even less supportive of social housing projects.

And of course, market housing costs are completely out of control in major cities, spiraling into the thousands of dollars a month just for a tiny 1 bedroom apartment, again due to constrained supply, slow permitting and restrictive zoning laws.

BristolUK

It could be a slogan for recruiters

JamesM

Good points.

Toronto has gotten worse over the years and is starting to remind me more of Manchester when I lived there in the late 90's than the cleaner safer place I arrived to in 2004.

They build lots of property in Toronto but they tend to build tiny condo's that are frankly too small for one person to live in. The positive is very few can afford to live in them anyway.

The most Liberal neighbourhoods like the Beaches can't stand the thought of affordable housing so it all gets pushed on to the Conservative parts.

It's unfortunately modern city living. As DBD says go and see San Francisco and some west coast cities in the US.

Comparing Toronto to rural Wales is hardly apples to apples though so the initial post is rife with WYSIATI. I'd still rather Toronto than Cardiff or Swansea for example- there is less sheep around.

BEVS

Many of these posts could apply to New Zealand.

Dorothy

Or Australia. Or any other first-world country.

jandro

I haven't lived in or visited Toronto for years but when I did live there I remember seeing a lot of homelessness around Queen and Spadina - people sleeping on grates in sub zero weather and lots of begging. I never saw any tent cities though. I read that Allen Gardens is surrounded with tents or recently was. I've noticed the amount of homelessness and encampments has increased in the lower mainland and I feel i have to be more wary travelling on the sky train. It has a lot to do with the housing crisis I think and people not being able to afford the high rents.

I was recently in the UK and saw a fair bit of street begging in Edinburgh's city center including someone a tent set up in the street. In London I only experienced some begging around Elephant and Castle. Overall not nearly as bad as here.

Tumbling_Dice

We have started to see tents spring up all around the centre of Halifax, sadly. No level of government, of any party, seems to be willing to take this on... seems to be a closed eyes fingers in ears type of thing and hope that a solution magics itself into existance.

CanadaJimmy

Because solving the homeless problem requires upsetting NIMBYs/homeowners, either by hurting their house prices while making homes more affordable or building social housing near them, and politicians are terrified of upsetting that demographic.

Moses2013

Can't comment on Canada now but as Dorothy said above, it's probably the same with any first-world country. The only difference is the way a country hides the homeless population.
In a city like Madrid you have the biggest shanty town in Europe, so people would probably hang around there and not be considered homeless. In Ireland the homeless now live in hotels, although Dublin is very bad in parts now. Look to Germany and this is now normal in Frankfurt, you see it later in the video.


https://www.zdf.de/politik/laendersp...ertel-100.html

CanadaJimmy

Interesting to get an outside perspective. The capitalist system is basically failing millions of people globally.

dbd33

The consequences of modern capitalism are utterly Dickensian.

calman014

If you look on YouTube there are remarkably similar scenes from New York and Toronto from a poster who walks through these areas with a small camera. Welcome to the City of the future.

Moses2013

I still watch German TV and do find that a lot of things that happen over there eventually reach all of us in Europe (similar in UK). While homelessness is a problem, there are other examples.
The guy in the video at 3:20 is originally from Turkey, but is well integrated and has been living in Germany for many years (kids born there etc.). When he moved to the area he was told that this is Romania and he should leave. Now the whole neighbourhood has been taken over and many do not pay any rent for months as they get away with it. This attracts more of the type and eventually the properties are worthless and normal people give up. The elderly lady has been living there for 32 years and bought the apartment with her husband for 90K (22 years ago). She can't leave now as nobody would buy it.
No homeless here, but not a nice place to live either